…which the Romans never needed to do elsewhere in their empire?
I’m sorry if this is unclear. The speculation was that there might have been a cult or sect for whom the form of the dodecahedron was particularly special and that not just any old candelabra would do.
The argument you’re making is that it’s not like other candleholders, but that would be the point. No, I don’t have any evidence that this was so. It’s speculation.
I also think some sort of cultic significance is the most likely explanation for the distribution and shape.
I don’t think that the function is candleholder, though - why build a weird, only semi-functional candleholder when perfectly fine candleholders already exist? In such a range of sizes?
Also, some of these apparently have been found with wax residue, but I don’t know anything more about that, like where on the objects, what kind of wax, how much of it, etc. Do you have any more info?
I agree wax wouldn’t survive the casting process, but wax had all kinds of other uses in both fine metalwork and in jewelry care than just casting, so I’m not going to jump immediately from “wax” to “candle” absent more info.
The notion was that there might have been a cult who specifically wanted a candleholder for, say, placement on an altar, and they might specifically have wanted it to be a dodecahedron, for reasons that made sense to their religion. Religion is not always concerned with practicality.
The speculation was that only some of them were the originally-designed object - other examples perhaps being decorative/ornamental derivatives, made after the original purpose had already fallen into obscurity. Thus even if some of them had some function, not all of them would have to conform to that function if they came later.
No, not very much information appears to be in circulation; all I can find is mentions such as this
“To complete your call on Romana Societas Telephonica, please deposit 25 silver denarii.”
Has anyone found a comprehensive collection of photos of all the known examples? Or at least a list or something?
It’s not a complete gallery, but lots of photos on Wikimedia commons:
That is a really good idea. I don’t think it is the answer, as there would be no need for it to always sit flat, but the construction does have some interesting features that are reminiscent of bells. The corner knobs would act to significantly lower the resonant frequencies, and could even help to produce multiple resonant frequencies. Messing with holes sizes would also make a difference, and again maybe allow multiple frequencies to be generated. Tuning the thing to create a chord would be feasible if likely quite difficult.
I would really like this to be the answer, but I fear it isn’t.
According to the Wikipedia article, no dodecahedra have been found in Italy, only in outposts of the empire. ISTM this indicates a military rather than household function.
But not all outposts. Only in Gaul and Britain. If it was military you would think it would be found in other areas where the legions were stationed, like Spain, Judea, Greece and Egypt.
That suggests it was a Roman-Gaulic thing.
Yep - like I posted before, legions stationed in Judea or Egypt were the very same legions that were stationed in Britain or Gaul. They moved around. So they would have taken these items with them if it had military use.
Or if it was a religious cult strongly associated with the military, like the Mithras cult.
The geographic limitation points to some sort of regional cultural artefact. The fact they’ve been found in some military contexts in the north-west areas of the empire suggests that those military sources were Roman/Gaulic, not that it was associated with the military.
Fwiw, i own some weird semi-functional candle holders that i use on Hanukkah. So this doesn’t feel all that far fetched to me.
Weird as in “full of holes with no place to catch the dripping wax?”
I’ve heard they’re healthy
It’s a medical device. The Pythagoreans invented the dodecahedron. Wiki: “The sides of a regular dodecahedron are regular, which for Pythagoreans symbolized health.” This would explain the high level of craftsmenship: it was used by physicians and those seeking treatment. The nodes were designed to suspend the pentagrams above the area of injury or ailment. How did the object promote a cure? It didn’t, but it needed to look as if it might.
Why are there different sized holes? If the different sides have different pseudo-medical significance, why aren’t any labeled? Dammit Jim, I’m a poster not a doctor. Seriously, does this look like any sort of ancient medical device? It doesn’t look like an incense burner. I suspect this is another partial explanation that falls apart.
Along similar lines, dodecahedrons aren’t especially popular. Meaning they are a little obscure for a generic mystical symbol, lacking the oomph of the pentagram, the cross, or any number of occultish symbols. I say this is weak evidence against the cult hypothesis, unless someone can point to a religious symbol of a small sect that mostly (not entirely) disappeared later.
ETA: Here’s the winged symbol of Zoroastrianism. Looks political or religious.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/symbol-of-zoroastrianism--faravahar--symbol-for-god-ahura-mazda--yazd--iran-967926812-5b84691f46e0fb0050bc30a3.jpg)
If every candle-holder anyone had ever made, had an effective capacity to catch dripping wax, this would be an argument that pretty soundly ruled out the purpose-as-candleholder.
But not every candle holder ever made is like that - in particular, some candle holders where the form seems to have been more important than the function of catching the wax, are not very good at catching the wax. For example (and frustratingly, I can’t find a photo online) I’ve seen little Roman bronze candlesticks in the form of a bird with wings spread and just a hole in the back, to accommodate a candle. Any wax would just run down and drip all over the bird, but apparently that was OK.
There are even contexts (although I can only call to mind a modern one) where the accumulation of dripping wax is a feature, not a bug.
Are you sure they aren’t oil lamps? The hole in the back is usually for filling the lamp and a hole at the end opposite whatever serves as a handle for the wick. There are many decorative variations on the basic design.
Neat trick, them seeding the planet with entirely natural pyrite versions of ‘their’ invention aeons before Pythagoras was ever born, then.
No, just a small, solid bird figurine with a hole in its back, labelled as a candle holder.
Look, I’m just going to drop the whole candle-holder idea, OK? It was never more than a piece of speculation (and then only as an illustrative example of how a functional-item-turned-knicknack could explain why not all examples of the object have the same physical attributes) and I feel like I am being pushed to defend it more than I particularly want to. It’s not a candle holder.
I think it is totally plausible that these items were used - second hand, so to speak - as candle holders well after the intended purpose was over, forgotten or whatever. They look interesting, probably were a conversation piece, and happened to be hanging around. Why not use them as a candle holder, especially if the Roman in question has no idea what his parents or grandparents used it for?
I mean, I have a friend who owns a human skull (don’t ask about the legality) and he uses it for a candle mount.
ETA, my guess, despite the expense and effort to make the dodecahedrons, rich kids toys.