# Roman Polanski Redux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618 "2017-06-10T16:54:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/22 "2017-06-14T01:26:29Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > So France’s laws are even more strict. But he raped a girl in america, so no harm no foul I guess. Are you even reading this thread? > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s not about European attitudes about rape, it’s about the extradition process. > > First, France. It’s nothing to do with attitudes to rape. Rather, it’s a constitutional right in France that a French citizen cannot be extradited. Instead, they provide that the requesting country should bring the evidence to a court in France, which will then conduct a trial of the French citizen. The California prosecutors have not tried that approach. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/23 "2017-06-14T09:31:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Fuck him with Bill Cosby’s dick. > > Stranger You should make T-shirts! > [@astro](#): > > Why is he so focused on getting back into the US? France ain’t got no Waffle House. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/24 "2017-06-14T16:43:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think she might have a case here. I appreciate Ms. Geimer’s personal feelings on the matter, but in fairness there’s more to this case than the assault. Polanski’s actions bring the administration of justice itself into question and disrepute. If the court were to grant him leniency they are in effect admitting a rich guy can escape justice if he’s conveniently able to flee to a country that won’t extradite him. The administration of justice isn’t based on what the victims say it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/25 "2017-06-14T16:55:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The administration of justice isn’t based on what the victims say it should be. But if the personal interest of the victim can be used to help get the outcome sought by the prosecutors they can often influence the administration of justice. No prosecutor would say “I don’t care how much suffering you’ve gone through, I refuse to parade you around to influence either the judge or the jury-the administration of justice isn’t based on what _you_ want.” I think this might be the hypocrisy she was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/26 "2017-06-14T20:32:05Z")
Polanski is a rich and well connexted guy with powerful supporters (including Anne Appelbaum, the famed neoconservative intellectual who’s married to the former Polish Foreign Minister), not sure there’s anything more to it than that. IIRC, public opinion surveys in both France and Poland indicate normal people think he should pay for his crimes, but the opinions of the average French or Polish citizen don’t matter very much. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/27 "2017-06-14T21:07:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But if the personal interest of the victim can be used to help get the outcome sought by the prosecutors they can often influence the administration of justice. No prosecutor would say “I don’t care how much suffering you’ve gone through, I refuse to parade you around to influence either the judge or the jury-the administration of justice isn’t based on what _you_ want.” I think this might be the hypocrisy she was referring to. Yeah, the relatively recent (I think) phenomenon of ‘victim impact statements’ used to determine sentencing bothers me from a justice viewpoint. As noted by **akennett** above - criminal cases are the State v. Accused, not Victim v. Accused. And while there is some argument to made for ‘victim impact statements’, I really don’t like having relatives of victims testifying about what a good person the victim was. I was on a 2nd degree murder jury, and the jury was fairly unanimous that the prosecutor was a dick for putting the dead man’s mother on the stand. She added nothing to the facts, but we did get to see the poor woman break down remembering her son. (Guy was found guilty, FWIW.) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/28 "2017-06-14T22:15:53Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > No, she doesn’t have a case when she states “…suddenly it’s the state not me that counts.” > > _The criminal trial was always the state against the rapist, not the victim against the rapist. This is compounded when the piece of shit fled the country to avoid facing justice_. +1. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/29 "2017-06-14T22:41:28Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > +1. End of story. So the prosecution should never parade the victim in front of the judge and jury to get their sympathy and influence the verdict and/or the sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/30 "2017-06-15T13:01:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So the prosecution should never parade the victim in front of the judge and jury to get their sympathy and influence the verdict and/or the sentence? Correct - they should not. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/31 "2017-06-15T14:12:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My guess is that Goldberg is just opinionating without knowing the facts. Wouldn’t be the first time. She also thinks there was no moon landing-- or at least once went on record as saying that. Another issue is Sharon Tate. In spite of the 10-year-something time gap, a lot of people attribute his crime to PTSD over the way he lost his pregnant wife, even though I don’t think he himself ever made that claim. And I don’t know that Goldberg thinks this, I just know I’ve heard it bandied about by people who recognize that his films clearly reflect the trauma, even films made in the 1990s, and the 21st century. Please don’t ask me to defend this view, as I personally do not subscribe to it. Not that he clearly isn’t deeply effected by the Manson crimes, and that it shows in his films-- I believe that. I just don’t think it had anything to do with his crime. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/32 "2017-06-15T14:41:14Z")
The situation remains a shitshow. The judge fucked up by grandstanding, prompting Polanski - who, without question, committed a horrible crime - to run on the understanding that the courts were more interested in media reaction than in justice. The courts still apparently can’t get their shit together enough to facilitate extradition and in the meantime Polanski will probably remain free until his death in a few years and Ms. Geimer will never get any closure over the whole thing. So this is all going well. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/33 "2017-06-15T15:23:08Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The situation remains a shitshow. The judge fucked up by grandstanding, prompting Polanski… If by “grandstanding” you mean the judge rejected a plea agreement that he felt did not adequately address the magnitude of the crime and which he had good reason to believe would not prevent Polanski from repeating the behavior in the future, then that statement is true. It is also true that the judge was entirely within his purview to do so, and the essential facts of the crime were not in dispute by all parties including the use of sedatives and alcohol on a minor and the various violations that Polanski subjected her to. Polanski chose to ensconce himself in France where he would be beyond the reach of US courts, making him a fugititve from justice. One can argue that there were contributing factors, including a potential ethics violation on the part of the Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney, but the “shitshow” (original offense, flight from sentencing, various attempts at extradition) is due to Polanski electing to be a fugitive from a crime he owned up to committing. There isn’t any one-armed man or frame up, and while Polanski or his apologists might cite his childhood in living in the Krakow ghetto and seeing both parents taken away to death camps, or the sadistic murder of Sharon Tate, the fact remains that he visited a heinous crime upon a minor child and has since avoided accepting responsibility for his actions. For what it is worth, Samantha Geimer has changed her tune numerous times over the years and it is entirely understandable that she would want to leave this incident that has unfortunately defined her life in the public view behind her, but the decision to pursue or exonerate Polanski for charges is not within her purview, and with good reason, because many victims would choose to not pursue charges even if the offender is likely to act again. There is an entire legal industry which acts to protect known celebrity predators from prosecution; from Bill Cosby and Phil Spector to R. Kelly and Paul Gadd (Garry Glitter), these serial offenders are able to assault again and again with virtual impunity as long as they pay or threaten enough to keep the victims silent. It is long past time that this tradition of permitting famous celebrities get away with abuse was ended, and that should include one of its most notorious members of its pantheon in Roman Polanski. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/34 "2017-06-19T17:07:15Z")
The judge rejected a short IIRC basically non-custodial sentence and suggested substituting it with a decades-long one. He probably acted properly in rejecting the proposed sentence, however, he could have probably done better than what he did in the replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/35 "2017-06-21T08:29:14Z")
Came across a Salon article from 2009, when the US was trying to extradite Polanski from Switzerland. The opening paragraphs bear quoting: [Reminder: Roman Polanski raped a child](http://www.salon.com/2009/09/28/polanski_arrest/) > [@](#): > > Roman Polanski raped a child. Let’s just start right there, because that’s the detail that tends to get neglected when we start discussing whether it was fair for the bail-jumping director to be arrested at age 76, after 32 years in “exile” (which in this case means owning multiple homes in Europe, continuing to work as a director, marrying and fathering two children, even winning an Oscar, but never — poor baby — being able to return to the U.S.). Let’s keep in mind that Roman Polanski gave a 13-year-old girl a Quaalude and champagne, then raped her, before we start discussing whether the victim looked older than her 13 years, or that she now says she’d rather not see him prosecuted because she can’t stand the media attention. Before we discuss how awesome his movies are or what the now-deceased judge did wrong at his trial, let’s take a moment to recall that according to the victim’s grand jury testimony, Roman Polanski instructed her to get into a jacuzzi naked, refused to take her home when she begged to go, began kissing her even though she said no and asked him to stop; performed cunnilingus on her as she said no and asked him to stop; put his penis in her vagina as she said no and asked him to stop; asked if he could penetrate her anally, to which she replied, “No,” then went ahead and did it anyway, until he had an orgasm. > > Can we do that? Can we take a moment to think about all that, and about the fact that Polanski pled guilty to unlawful sex with a minor, before we start talking about what a victim he is? Because that would be great, and not nearly enough people seem to be doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/36 "2017-06-21T12:15:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Came across a Salon article from 2009, when the US was trying to extradite Polanski from Switzerland. The opening paragraphs bear quoting: > > [Reminder: Roman Polanski raped a child](http://www.salon.com/2009/09/28/polanski_arrest/) Reminder noted that it begins with rape. Does it also stop there, and is any further discussion of what what happened afterward thrown out the window? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/37 "2017-06-21T12:57:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Reminder noted that it begins with rape. > Does it also stop there, and is any further discussion of what what happened afterward thrown out the window? You mean, when the judge saw pictures of Polanski consorting with more apparently underaged teenagers while in Europe (where he was given release to complete an ongoing project before evaluation and sentencing) and decided the interests of the state in seeing justice done and preventing a only superficially contrite rapist from reoffending dictated rejecting a sweetheart plea that would leave Polanski to not serve any addition time in prison or under psychiatric care? I sure as fuck wouldn’t want to be the judge who gave a sexual predator a free pass only to have another offense occur and have to bear the question of why the defendant was given such lax treatment the fisrt time _he raped a 13 year old girl!_ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/38 "2017-06-21T15:50:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Came across a Salon article from 2009, when the US was trying to extradite Polanski from Switzerland. The opening paragraphs bear quoting: > > [Reminder: Roman Polanski raped a child](http://www.salon.com/2009/09/28/polanski_arrest/) I’m not easily offended or shocked, but it truly blows my mind that someone can read that paragraph, and retort that there’s probably more to the story. I’m guessing that if you can waive this away, there isn’t much you wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/39 "2017-06-21T16:02:29Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I’m not easily offended or shocked, but it truly blows my mind that someone can read that paragraph, and retort that there’s probably more to the story. > > I’m guessing that if you can waive this away, there isn’t much you wouldn’t. Who here is waving it away? Saying that there is more to the story is not the same thing as saying that the previous narrative should be ignored or excused-it just means that the story might be expanded. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/40 "2017-06-21T16:11:15Z")
I for one read “the story might be expanded” to equate to “there’s mitigation that would allow for the rapist of a 13 year old child” to go unpunished. And if that’s what you’re arguing, that for me that’s waiving it away. I’m willing to be proven wrong. I huge part of me just doesn’t want to live in a society where rich Hollywood types get away with this type of thing because they are “artists” or contribute to the “greater good.” If this was an auto worker form Detroit, we wouldn’t be having this discussion, even if we heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/41 "2017-06-21T18:10:37Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I for one read “the story might be expanded” to equate to “there’s mitigation that would allow for the rapist of a 13 year old child” to go unpunished. And if that’s what you’re arguing, that for me that’s waiving it away. I’m willing to be proven wrong. > > I huge part of me just doesn’t want to live in a society where rich Hollywood types get away with this type of thing because they are “artists” or contribute to the “greater good.” If this was an auto worker form Detroit, we wouldn’t be having this discussion, even if we heard about it. Actually, it’s quite possible that if Polanski had been an auto worker from Detroit (a.k.a. average guy rather than rich Hollywood type) who had sex with an already sexual active 13 year old in the 1970s he would have never been charged with rape or if charged, never been prosecuted and convicted. Attitudes about age of consent and the laws about the concept of consent itself were different in the 1970s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618.md?page=3)