# Roman Polanski Redux **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618 "2017-06-10T16:54:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/82 "2017-06-26T18:10:13Z")
Law Careers can be ended even more easily by doing that. Just ask Marcia Clark. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/83 "2017-08-19T14:26:53Z")
Judge dismisses application by Geimer to dismiss charge against Polanski: > **[Roman Polanski: judge rejects request from victim to dismiss rape case](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/aug/19/roman-polanski-judge-rejects-request-from-victim-to-dismiss-case)** > > Ruling follows first appearance in the case by Samantha Geimer, who was 13 years old when the director sexually assaulted her in Los Angeles in 1977 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/84 "2020-03-02T19:37:24Z")
Bumped. Actresses walk out of Cesars ceremony after Polanski wins top awards: [Actresses walk out of 'French Oscars' after Roman Polanski wins top awards | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/29/europe/roman-polanski-actresses-walk-out-cesar-awards-intl/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/85 "2020-03-03T22:39:18Z")
Thanks for bumping this. I missed this thread back in 2017. Some of the posts have me shaking my head, particularly ZPG Zealot’s ridiculous claim that statutory rape wasn’t a big deal in the Seventies was either shrugged off or that pubescent girls who were brutally raped were painted as sluts. Polanski, who is a talented, even brilliant director, should have spent a good chunk of that career behind bars. Kudos to the actresses who walked out. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/86 "2020-03-05T00:39:35Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Some of the posts have me shaking my head, particularly ZPG Zealot’s ridiculous claim that statutory rape wasn’t a big deal in the Seventies was either shrugged off or that pubescent girls who were brutally raped were painted as sluts. > > Polanski, who is a talented, even brilliant director, should have spent a good chunk of that career behind bars. Kudos to the actresses who walked out. Yes indeed. It should be remembered that Polanski pled guilty to charges involving drugging and violating a very young girl, behaved pretty badly while out on bail pending sentencing, and then failed to show up for sentencing. Which pretty much means that it’s out of the hands of the victim at this point. He has never been punished one iota for his actions. Living well in Europe isn’t punishment. He got away with rape, and with blowing off the criminal justice system of the United States. And he probably never will be punished. Unfortunately, some of Europe, and particularly France, has a high tolerance for this kind of shit. See the case of [Gabrial Matzneff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Matzneff). Things really haven’t changed that much, although there are indications that change is finally coming. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/87 "2020-03-05T04:48:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I want him punished for fleeing from justice, as well as for the original crime. He expressed the utmost contempt for our judicial system, and is still showing significant disrespect for it, thinking he can play bargaining games with it. > > … Well, no. The DA played a bargaining game with him, then the Judge reneged after Polanski accepted the deal. > **[Roman Polanski | Legal history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski#Legal_history)** > > In 1977, Polanski was arrested and charged with drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl. As a result of a plea bargain, he pleaded guilty to the lesser offence of unlawful sex with a minor. In 1978, after learning that the judge planned to reject his plea deal and impose a prison term instead of probation, he fled to Paris. A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers. An Interpol red notice was issued for his arrest, and he rarely leav Gailey’s attorney arranged a plea bargain in which five of the six charges would be dismissed, and Polanski accepted.[145] A\*s a result of the plea bargain, Polanski pleaded guilty to the charge of “unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor”,[146][147] and was ordered to undergo 90 days of psychiatric evaluation at California Institution for Men at Chino.[148] Upon release from prison after 42 days, Polanski agreed to the plea bargain, his penalty to be time served along with probation. However, he learned afterward that the judge, Laurence J. Rittenband, had told some friends that he was going to disregard the plea bargain and sentence Polanski to 50 years in prison:[147][149] “I’ll see this man never gets out of jail,” he told Polanski’s friend, screenwriter Howard E. Koch.[150] Gailey’s attorney confirmed the judge changed his mind after he met the judge in his chambers: He was going to sentence Polanski, rather than to time served, to fifty years. What the judge did was outrageous. We had agreed to a plea bargain and the judge had approved it.[150][151]\* I can’t condone in any way what Polanski did, but those sort of plea deals were common back then. The DA offered a deal- Polanski accepted the deal- the judge had no business reneging on the deal and coming up with 50 years- which in 1977 was ridiculously high. Yes, the deal sounds crazy good, but in 1977 that sort of plea deal was normal. Not today, of course. So “Bargaining games” is exactly what the State offered. I dont blame him for fleeing the nation after that. However his crime is totally reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/88 "2020-03-05T04:50:14Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I know there are many that want this to end due to the woman not wanting to pursue it, or due to the passage of time. > > But lets review one more time. He drugged and anally raped a 13 year old child. Do you really want to just wave that away??? No. But if the Judge hadnt gone back on the deal, it all would have been over and done, and as you said- 'waved away". Remember- **1977** , not 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/89 "2020-03-05T14:50:08Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Yeah, the relatively recent (I think) phenomenon of ‘victim impact statements’ used to determine sentencing bothers me from a justice viewpoint. As noted by **akennett** above - criminal cases are the State v. Accused, not Victim v. Accused. > > And while there is some argument to made for ‘victim impact statements’, I really don’t like having relatives of victims testifying about what a good person the victim was. I was on a 2nd degree murder jury, and the jury was fairly unanimous that the prosecutor was a dick for putting the dead man’s mother on the stand. She added nothing to the facts, but we did get to see the poor woman break down remembering her son. (Guy was found guilty, FWIW.) (I realize this is from 2017, but I’m going to add my 2 cents anyway). I get what you’re saying, but I feel impact statements are even less necessary when it’s the criminal’s family talking about how his or her life is now ruined, take pity, everyone has suffered enough, etc. I’m still furious over what Brock Turner’s dad said during the sentencing of his son. I understand the criminal’s family is impacted too, and in many cases they’ve suffered as well. Nothing they say is going to make the victim of their family feel any better, though. Maybe just saying they are sorry is passable, but jumping to the defense of the murderer/rapist/whatever just pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/90 "2020-03-06T12:06:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No. But if the Judge hadnt gone back on the deal, it all would have been over and done, and as you said- 'waved away". Remember- **1977** , not 2020. Judges refusing to go along with plea deals are a risk that child rapists just have to accept. I can’t believe that actual human beings are arguing that Polanski has suffered enough and should get a pass. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/91 "2020-03-06T12:42:18Z")
A person should not be sentenced to a lengthy period of incarceration without a full trial. If they waive their right to a trial. When a judge feels a deal is unduly lenient, then they can of course reject it, but propriety demands that they inform the parties of that inclination and ask the accused if he wishes to withdraw. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/92 "2020-03-06T12:54:53Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I can’t believe that actual human beings are arguing that Polanski has suffered enough and should get a pass. Who said that? The law simply says that you can’t extradite a French (or German, or Japanese, etc) citizen, so you would (now) have to try him in France. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/93 "2020-03-06T19:11:50Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Judges refusing to go along with plea deals are a risk that child rapists just have to accept. > > I can’t believe that actual human beings are arguing that Polanski has suffered enough and should get a pass. I am not saying that. No one is saying that. That Plea deal was normal for 1977. If the judge had accepted it, we wouldnt be having this discussion. Now, yes, here in 2020, that plea deal is way too good. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/94 "2020-03-06T20:14:51Z")
Aren’t judges required to approve a plea deal in the first place? Or is that just a memory artifact from one of the 307 police/lawyer shows out there? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/95 "2020-03-06T21:27:46Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Aren’t judges required to approve a plea deal in the first place? Or is that just a memory artifact from one of the 307 police/lawyer shows out there? They do have to approve it. ``` And although it would be absolutely wrong for a judge to renege on a deal he approved ( at least without offering the defendant the opportunity to withdraw his guilty pleas), I haven't even seen an accusation that it actually happened. I see lots of statements that the judge had told someone or another in a private conversation that he was going to sentence Polanski more harshly than the plea deal called for - and some saying that the victim's lawyer had arranged/approved the plea bargain. No transcripts regarding the judge agreeing to the deal, and I haven't seen anything from the prosecutor saying that the judge agreed. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/96 "2020-03-07T13:18:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am not saying that. No one is saying that. > > That Plea deal was normal for 1977. If the judge had accepted it, we wouldnt be having this discussion. > > Now, yes, here in 2020, that plea deal is way too good. If Polanski hadn’t skipped bail and become a fugitive, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. That’s all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/97 "2020-03-08T11:40:15Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > They do have to approve it. > > ``` > And although it would be absolutely wrong for a judge to renege on a deal he approved ( at least without offering the defendant the opportunity to withdraw his guilty pleas), I haven't even seen an accusation that it actually happened. I see lots of statements that the judge had told someone or another in a private conversation that he was going to sentence Polanski more harshly than the plea deal called for - and some saying that the victim's lawyer had arranged/approved the plea bargain. No transcripts regarding the judge agreeing to the deal, and I haven't seen anything from the prosecutor saying that the judge agreed. > > ``` There are sealed transcripts from a deposition made by the prosecutor in the case. During one of the extradition cases, his lawyers asked for them to be made public but was refused. There really is no good reason (within rubric of the particular case) for them not to be and the inference that they are highly unfavorable to the State is more or less irresistible. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/98 "2020-03-08T12:20:24Z")
I think that may be the material that both the Swiss and Polish courts cited when they refused extradition. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/99 "2020-03-08T13:38:14Z")
Yes. If I had to venture a guess, the reason California doesn’t want them released is since they might reveal an institutional pattern of prosecutorial and judicial collusion in that era. Which would place other cases in jeopardy. I know in England there was a culture of collusion and remarkably prejudicial behaviour in the criminal investigative & justice system at this time. Stuff which caused a great outcry in the 1990’s and led to reform. I am not an expert, but from what I have read, N America had similar issues. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/100 "2020-03-08T13:56:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > All of that still amounts to latitude towards rape. The France case falls to preferring to have a rapist than to extradite a citizen. The Swiss and Polish case are both situations where it was a judgment call, meaning they didn’t even have that excuse. > > He pled guilty. He’s admitted it was not consensual. No evidence is needed. And he’s not going to get the death penalty, so claims about it not being safe are farcical on their face. > > Punishing an admitted rapist should be more important than any of this bureaucratic nonsense. Anything less is giving rape latitude. No, it’s not “bureaucratic nonsense” and “latitude towards rape”. It’s called due process. Extradition means that a foreign country arrests someone in that country and hands them over to the extraditing country, even though the individual has not committed any breach of that foreign country’s laws. That’s a major state infringement of the individual’s liberty. Extradition is important, but the individual’s personal liberty has to be protected by due process to be fair. France’s long-standing constitutional provision is that they won’t extradite a citizen. They see that as a basic constitutional safeguard. Instead, they say to the requesting country, “Bring the charges against the French citizen here, in the French courts, and we will try the case.” The California prosecutors have declined to do so. That’s not saying there’s a general French tolerance for rapists. It’s that the California prosecutors, for whatever reason, do not want to have the case tried in France. Their choice. The Swiss and Polish cases are different. They both have found that the material filed by the US government in support of extradition is not complete, and they do not think it would be safe to extradite, not having the complete record of the case in front of them. Again, that’s on the California prosecutors. Why do they not want to file the complete record in open court in support of their application for extradition? ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618/101 "2020-03-08T17:17:04Z")
For forty years, liberals especially Hollywood liberals painted anyone who wanted Polanski to be punished for his crimes as sexually repressed religious anti-semitic rubes. They argued having sex with a 13 yo was perfectly acceptable in enlightened France and that we needed to educate ourselves. These same liberals knew what Weinstein and Cosby were doing and said nothing. If the MeToo movement is serious, they would demand guys like Seth McFarlane who literally joked about it in his Oscars monologue be cancelled for their silence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roman-polanski-redux/788618.md?page=6)