# Romance novels and slash are just socially acceptable softcore porn for women **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 22, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223 "2003-07-22T20:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/61 "2003-07-30T05:55:12Z")
Men like big tits and big asses because we evolved (over millions of porn-free years) to prefer women of the hourglass shape. Incidentally, women have a similar bilogical imperative to prefer the inverted triangle shape in men. I saw this on a brain-food channel show, [but here’s a quick cite](http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20001224/spectrum/main1.htm) (shamelessly Google’d) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/62 "2003-07-30T06:03:09Z")
Men like big tits and big asses because we evolved (over millions of porn-free years) to prefer women of the hourglass shape. Incidentally, women have a similar bilogical imperative to prefer the inverted triangle shape in men. I saw this on a brain-food channel show, [but here’s a quick cite.](http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20001224/spectrum/main1.htm) (shamelessly Google’d) Some points of interest: > [@](#): > > Moralists hasten to condemn this ‘beauty craze’ as an evil influence of the West generated by multinational cosmetics and clothes companies and the evil media, forgetting conveniently that our ancient paintings, sculptures, and literature are eloquent in celebrating the ideal female form, that is proportional body features, and the much sought after hour glass figure. > [@](#): > > Professor Devendra Singh of Department of Psychology, University of Texas, Austin…says: “Yes, attractiveness ratings of both men and women are related to body symmetry. And accumulating evidence seems to favour a biological basis. Especially if you are looking at core features rather than superficial features such as hair colour or eye colour, skin tone, etc. For example, children as young as three months of age seem to prefer attractive faces. They look at attractive faces longer, which are also judged by adults to be attractive. Obviously they have not had enough time for culture to work on their minds. So the question is: What makes this face attractive?..” It must be _Playboy_. It’s a pretty long article, but an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/63 "2003-07-30T06:07:37Z")
Ooops, crap. Sorry for the doubler. It takes SOOOO LOOOOOONG to actually engage a post I got bored and started quoting. Thought I cancelled it in time. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/64 "2003-07-30T06:26:00Z")
> **[Reeves Memorial Library & Learning Commons](https://www.setonhill.edu/academics/academic-support-resources/library/)** > > As a Seton Hill student, Reeves Memorial Library will provide you with the information resources, tools and support that you need to succeed. I actually read this before I even ran across this thread. It’s about paranormal romances (obviously) and is written by a professor at Seton Hill College in PA, who has a PhD in English. She’s also a published romance author. The article goes a long way to establish the differences between the 70s/80s “bodice-rippers” and the more current trend in romantic fiction – that is, stories about women with personalities and problems, rather than just simple, li’l misses with heaving bosoms. It also talks about how romance’s demographic area has changed over the years. (Blah blah blah, Sarah! Just tell them to read the article.) Listen to my inner voice; read the article. I’m a practically unabashed (in that I’m actually _almost_ able to admit that I do read them) reader of romance novels. However, I also read other books that don’t fit into the romance genre, so I do know that my romance novels aren’t really aren’t meeting The Three Unities (even though that’s classical drama). I’ll readily admit that romance novels are without redeeming qualities. There’s quite a bit of a difference between those bodice-rippers, though, and some of the romance novels out there. There was even an article in Time (I think! I could be wrong) about those differences a while ago. As in the Feb. 3, 2003 issue. Very unfortunately archived, but available for purchase! Anyway, I seem to remember it saying that romance novels are fast flying away from the Scruples model, especially romantic fiction. Sarah ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/65 "2003-07-30T06:35:31Z")
Hey, **lillalette**! Stop hijacking the th… oh, wait. Yeah, uh… nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/66 "2003-07-30T07:01:06Z")
Hey, now, kettle, put away the black paint! 😉 You know, I was really shocked when I discovered that there are a lot of romance writers with degrees above and beyond a BA. I actually tangled with the idea of writing a romance novel to fund my college education, but stopped once I realized how fantastically hard writing well is. Sarah ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/67 "2003-07-30T11:06:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wang-Ka \* > \*\*Okay, I’m sorry. That wasn’t a very clever joke. But I have a VERY hard time believing the quoted statement. Nearly ALL municipalities have some form of “sexually oriented business” ordinance that makes it a pain in the butt to open or run a porn outlet or topless bar or whatever… and that’s just the legal end of things. Many cities go even farther, by ordering police raids and general harassment, to the point where the business simply cannot function profitably. > > \*\* At first, I agreed with you. Then I thought about what ‘normally’ is considered ‘hardcore’ porn. As I understood it, the difference between hardcore and softcore was that in hardcore, there was graphic depiction of sexual contact/penetration/ejaculation. If I’m wrong, please don’t hesitate to correct me. Now in the no-so-distant past, all magazines you could buy in liquor stores and 7-11’s were softcore. (where there were ‘simulated’ acts of oral sex and penetration). That is no longer the case. Now (at least here in the LA area) I can walk into most any liqour store and pick up a hardcore mag. Actual photos of penetration, anal penetration, oral copulation and ejaculation. While there may be quite a difference in the number of “novelty shops” and Micky Dees, the difference between the number of McDonalds and liquor stores is not that great. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/68 "2003-07-30T11:10:16Z")
Forgot to mention: In many of these liquor stores you can also purchase ‘hardore’ video tapes. Now, this could be a result of the relaxing of the codes only in the city of Los Angeles. I don’t know what’s going on in other cities. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/69 "2003-07-30T17:57:01Z")
I think this is merely proof that LA is on a different planet from the rest of America. I can’t imagine this happening even in New York State, where the liquor stores are independent and far less so in those states that have package liquor stores run by the state. Magazines? Videos? Never. Penthouse and Hustler now have actual penetration, so I’m told (no, really) so they may qualify as hardcore. But they are banned, I thought, at 7-11s and many other places. The real question I’d like to ask that pertains to the OP is where romance readers buy their books. Romance is now over 50% of the total fiction market, but if you walk into any bookstore they will have far less shelf display than f&sf, which has about 5% of the fiction market. What gives? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223/70 "2003-07-30T19:55:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\* > The real question I’d like to ask that pertains to the OP is where romance readers buy their books. Romance is now over 50% of the total fiction market, but if you walk into any bookstore they will have far less shelf display than f&sf, which has about 5% of the fiction market. What gives? \*\* You’re forgetting that people buy books at places other than bookstores. I see a heck of a lot of romance novels for sale in grocery stores, and have often heard romance novels refered to as “Grocery store romances” or “Kroeger novels” because of this. I imagine a lot of romance fans pick up a new book every week or so when doing their regular shopping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romance-novels-and-slash-are-just-socially-acceptable-softcore-porn-for-women/190223.md?page=3)