Maybe a mod could move this to GD.
How many men have been raped by women as a result of those images? I’m not condoning them, at all. But it’s a completely different scenario. As I said before, if porn had no negative affects on women and we lived in a culture of complete equality and no women felt the need for breast implants to feel validated as a women, my views on porn would be different. That said, I don’t like the idea of a dominant/submissive relationship, no matter who has what role.
I can agree with that, but what if all porn, whether directly or indirectly, causes harm to women? What then.
The way you paraphrased it made it false, yes. But my statement saying “Why would feminists have a problem with it then?” neither explicitly expressed or implied that all feminists would have a problem with it, rather that people who had a problem with it were generally feminists. And you dodged answering the question, too.
A friend of mine gave me a bunch of stickers saying “This product is harmful to women” on them. The first product that I put one on was a Cosmopolitan. The second was a Playboy magazine. Therefore your point means nothing to me. Obviously Cosmo isn’t healthy.
Why do you think that they like women with big breasts and big rears? Certainly not because those are the images that Hustler tells them is attractive, right?! And by “portrays unhealthy images of women” I’m not just talking about emaciated women with boyish figures. I’m also talking about women with implants. Don’t try to tell me that most women in mainstream porn have not been altered with by a plastic surgeon in one way or another.
“Big and beautiful” porn is so NOT mainstream and so not a part of most people’s everyday life that I don’t think it applies so much for what I was saying. I don’t see any “big and beautiful” porn when I walk down the aisles of CVS or Barnes and Noble or a supermarket. I was talking about mainstream porn when I mentioned that, the porn that 99% of the people who read porn look at. I don’t think that porn in ALL of its forms is harmful to a woman’s self image, no. But I think it’s safe to say that all mainstream porn is.
Um, OKAY THEN MR. FREE-SPEECH-SHOULD-HAVE-NO-LIMITS! Here are some questions for you:
-Should someone be allowed to shout “FIRE!” falsely in a crowded movie theater without being subject to legal persecution?
-Should politicians be allowed to lie to the public?
-Should corporations be allowed to lie to their customers about their products and the means that they use to create them?
-Should people be allowed to lie about the ingredients in food?
-Should someone be allowed to make threats to someone else’s life without being punished?
-Should someone be allowed to verbally harass someone else?
I could think of many more examples. If you say “yes” to those questions, then I will simply think you’re crazy. But if you say “no”, then you should eat your condescending “Those two sentences are mutually exclusive”.
If it were simply me not liking the choice, then it wouldn’t be an issue. But if the choice negatively affects millions of women, it’s a different matter entirely. People can MAKE the choice, and it isn’t my job to infringe on that right. All I’m saying is that it’s a harmful choice and is going to negatively affect women.
Firstly, I’m curious as to why you say that Snuff videos are an urban legend. Nextly, porn is real not in that the scenes that took place are an accurate depiction of the film set, rather that porn stars are real human beings who are too often abused and degraded. Now, before you go into your “THAT ISN’T ALWAYS THE CASE!!!” spiel, note that I never once said that all porn should be outlawed or whatnot. I merely said that porn and society both need to go through a 180 degree turn before I can condone it. I can’t support an industry that treats women like meat, nor can I support one that helps men to view them this way and then commit atrocities against women.
I think that porn (as it is now) is a sympton of patriarchy that helps perpetuate the inequalities. I don’t know if you need it spelled out for you. I showed you the stats. I explained that porn is degrading and objectifying and is a tool in helping to keep women down through the “beauty myth”. If you don’t think that rape and abuse against women are symptoms of gender equality than I don’t think I should even bother arguing with you any more. If everything that I said holds no merit, and you really cared, you could go to the link that I posted and read all the anti-porn resources linked there. I seriously doubt that all the information in the world would sway your opinion, though.
See, now you’re completely putting words into my mouth and saying that I have a “cramped world view”, which is complete bullshit. I don’t have a problem with porn in theory, if it was what you and others seem to think it is. If porn indeed were healthy and not at all harmful, I would think that it were a totally positive thing. I also didn’t say that I was against ALL porn, but by “porn” I was including 99% of the porn that I’ve come into contact with. Obviously there are a lot of different things that “pornography” could entail, so I took the stance of speaking out against Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, and most all of the other porn magazines and websites that men read and then alter their view of women. I have absolutely NO problem with erotica if it is what it’s supposed to be. Absolutely none. And if there is porn out there that in no way objectifies women, and is in no way harmful and violent to them due to the beauty myth or male domination, then I think that could be totally great. If men could look at porn and it wouldn’t negatively alter their view of women, then I would say that porn was a natural, healthy thing. But until that day comes, I’m going to have to say that I oppose porn as 99% of it stands.