# Romans in Post Roman Britain-Could You Keep Your Lifestyle? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317 "2010-05-04T18:52:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/21 "2010-05-07T15:42:37Z")
There is an article in the March issue of “BBC History” magazine on life in Britain after the Romans left. Roman Britain, although different from our society, is probably easier for us to understand than Britain in the 7th, 12th or even 15th century. He could buy imported goods such as Mediterranean olives, sexy leather braziers or Nile cat fish. He could go to the Temple of Dreams in Lydney Park for dream therapy. Under Roman law citizens could not carry weapons except for hunting. It was multi-ethnic, not just Gauls and Romans in Londonium, but Syrians on Tyneside and Arabians near Carlisle. As article author Simon Young puts it, once the legions left (40,000), things rapidly went downhill. “Complex societies are more resistant to change than tribal or feudal equivalents. But change burns out of control they prove more combustible: a complete meltdown is possible in a way that a ‘primitive’ society could never experience. And this is what happened to Roman Britain after 410, a meltdown.” Without Romans legions, the people very quickly had to learn how to defend themselves against enemies which Britain had: Saxons, Picts and Irish, The instability made trade break down. Goods were not longer sent long distance. Factories and cities emptied when food stopped coming through. Without an economy, taxes stopped. No one trusted money anymore. And with the state vanishing, repairs were no longer made on roads. defensive structures and aqueducts. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/22 "2010-05-07T15:54:32Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > There is an article in the March issue of “BBC History” magazine on life in Britain after the Romans left. Roman Britain, although different from our society, is probably easier for us to understand than Britain in the 7th, 12th or even 15th century. He could buy imported goods such as Mediterranean olives, sexy leather braziers or Nile cat fish. He could go to the Temple of Dreams in Lydney Park for dream therapy. Under Roman law citizens could not carry weapons except for hunting. It was multi-ethnic, not just Gauls and Romans in Londonium, but Syrians on Tyneside and Arabians near Carlisle. > As article author Simon Young puts it, once the legions left (40,000), things rapidly went downhill. “Complex societies are more resistant to change than tribal or feudal equivalents. But change burns out of control they prove more combustible: a complete meltdown is possible in a way that a ‘primitive’ society could never experience. And this is what happened to Roman Britain after 410, a meltdown.” > Without Romans legions, the people very quickly had to learn how to defend themselves against enemies which Britain had: Saxons, Picts and Irish, The instability made trade break down. Goods were not longer sent long distance. Factories and cities emptied when food stopped coming through. Without an economy, taxes stopped. No one trusted money anymore. And with the state vanishing, repairs were no longer made on roads. defensive structures and aqueducts. People probably still valued their coins & other metal treasure. Many of them [buried their riches](http://www.wansdyke21.org.uk/wansdyke/wanart/nurse3.htm), planning to recover them once things got “back to normal.” (Of course, hoards from other eras have also been uncovered. Those islands have endured several times of Trouble.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/23 "2010-05-07T16:26:01Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > He could buy imported goods such as […] sexy leather braziers ermm, I think “brassieres”? There’s nothing sexy about self-immolating lighting. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/24 "2010-05-07T17:02:03Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > People probably still valued their coins & other metal treasure. Many of them [buried their riches](http://www.wansdyke21.org.uk/wansdyke/wanart/nurse3.htm), planning to recover them once things got “back to normal.” > > (Of course, hoards from other eras have also been uncovered. Those islands have endured several times of Trouble.) IIRC, many drilled holes in their coins and wore them as jewelry. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/25 "2010-05-07T17:49:14Z")
Are there any records of rich Brito-Romans selling out and moving to Rome? The coin hordes do suggest a rapid meltdown-one would think the rich (who had the most to lose) would be the firts to pack up and leave. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/26 "2010-05-07T18:34:12Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Are there any records of rich Brito-Romans selling out and moving to Rome? The coin hordes do suggest a rapid meltdown-one would think the rich (who had the most to lose) would be the firts to pack up and leave. It would seem logical, but I doubt there are any records. Things were pretty confusing, and written records only exist if someone thought they were worth copying. (Heck, there are precious few records of emperor Antonius Pius, and he ruled near the height of the Roman empire.) I picture many of the best connected Britons leaving with Constantine and hitching their wagon to his rising star, and more leaving over the course of time as he drew on families he trusted to rule. I can easily believe that by the time the army left, there were very few Romans left, who thought of anywhere other than Britain as home. Maybe some merchants and appointees to high posts, but other than that, I suspect that most who left just crossed the Channel. Eventually so many did that, that Brittany acquired a its name. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/27 "2010-05-07T18:49:00Z")
What **SlowMindThinking** said. Also, there are a few sporadic fragmentary details preserved – somebody (who and why escape me) noted to have left Britannia to hook up with Syagrius at Soissons, the ancestors of the Bretons taking refuge from Saxon expansion in southern Britain in Armorica (Brittany), etc. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/28 "2010-05-07T22:55:18Z")
I just saw the movie “King Arthur”-preety good flick. I liked the film’s characterization og the end of Roman Brittania-the toga-clad estate owner not wanting to leave his villa, the legionaries under attack by the Saxons. I guess the old Roman lifestyle did fall apart quickly-to be replaced by mediaeval backwardness. Although, I always wondered-why would people abandon hot baths? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/29 "2010-05-07T23:21:05Z")
Bathhouses are expensive to maintain, and without maintenance, they stop working. And it’s not like one day everyone is strolling around giving speeches in the forum and the next day you had knights in castles. Roman Britain near the end was pretty feudal itself. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/30 "2010-05-07T23:28:45Z")
The latter half of John Masefield’s “The Frontier” (in the public domain, Mods.) > [@](#): > > _Lucius_: > > Things are not going well in Rome, > This frontier war is wasting men > Like water, and the Tartars come > In hordes. > > \*COTTA \*: > We beat them back again. > > \*Lucius \*: > > So far we have, and yet I feel > The Empire is too wide a bow > For one land’s strength. > > \*COTTA \*: > > The stuff’s good steel. > > \*Lucius \*: > > Too great a strain may snap it though. > If we were ordered home. . . . > > \*COTTA \*: > > Good Lord . . . > > \*Lucius \*: > > If … Then our friends, the tribesmen there > Would have glad days. > > \*COTTA \*: > > This town would flare > To warm old Foxfoot and his horde. > > \*Lucius \*: > > We have not been forethoughtful here, > Pressing the men to fill the ranks > Centurions sweep the province clear. > > _COTTA:_ > Rightly. > > \*Lucius \*: > > Perhaps. > > \*COTTA \*: > We get no thanks. > > \*Lucius \*: > > We strip the men for troops abroad > And leave the women and the slaves > For merchants and then- kind. The graves > Of half each province line the road. > These people could not stand a day > Against the tribes, with us away. > > \*COTTA \*: > Rightly. > > \*Lucius \*: > Perhaps. > > \*COTTA \*: > Here comes the Chief. > > \*Lucius \*: > Sir, did your riders catch the thief? > > \*CHIEF \*: > > No, he got clear and keeps the horse > But bad news always conies with worse. > The frontier’s fallen, we’re recalled, > Our army’s broken, Rome’s appalled, > My God, the whole world’s in a blaze. > So now, we’ve done with idle days > Fooling on frontiers. Boot and start. > It gives a strange feel in the heart > To think that this, that Rome has made, > Is done with. Yes, the stock’s decayed. > We march at once. You mark my words, > We’re done, we’re crumbled into sherds, > We shall not see this place again > When once we go. > > \*Lucius \*: > Do none remain? > > \*CHIEF \*: > > No, none, all march. Here ends the play. > March, and burn camp. The order’s gone, > Your men have sent your baggage on. > > \*COTTA \*: > My God, hark how the trumpets bray. > > \*CHIEF \*: > > They do. You see the end of things. > The power of a thousand kings > Helped us to this, and now the power > Is so much hay that was a flower. > > \*Lucius \*: > We have been very great and strong. > > \*CHIEF \*: > That’s over now. > > \*Lucius \*: > It will be long > Before the world will see our like. > > \*CHIEF \*: > > We’ve kept these thieves beyond the dyke > A good long tune, here on the Wall. > > \*Lucius \*: > > Colonel, we ought to sound a call > To mark the end of this. > > \*CHIEF \*: > > We ought. > > Look. There’s the hill top where we fought > Old Foxfoot. Look, there in the whin. > Old ruffian knave. Come on. Fall in. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/31 "2010-05-08T20:19:46Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Thanks for the info. Would a town like Bath (and its famous Roman baths) remain in use? One would think that hot baths would have an attraction-even to barbarians. > As for trade-Britain was a big supplier of lead and tin-were the mines worked after the Romans left? I’d refer you to James Campbell’s “The Anglo-Saxons”, showing that the baths were used after the Anglo-Saxons took over the area, which in that part of the country would have been mid-late sixth century. Not so sure about other areas, where hot water relied on fire wood rather than geology, though. There’s also debate over whether lead mining was continuous, but if not it was revived in early Anglo-Saxon times. > [@SlowMindThinking](#): > > Christianity was re-introduced in the 7th century. Christianity was introduced to the Anglo-Saxons, having survived throughout in Wales, amongst the Gwr y Gogledd and in the other surviving Cambric enclaves. > [@](#): > > Gaul may not have been peaceful, but the Goths, Franks, and others all attempted to maintain more or less Roman civilization until the 7th or 8th centuries. Spain never really lost it, as it held on to a more or less Roman civ character for a little while even after the Muslims conquered it, and it expanded economically as they brought more suitable farming techniques. Undoubtedly more of the tribal structure, nomenclature and language survived “barbarian” onslaught on the continent. I recommend “The English Settlements” by JNL Myers. > [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > As article author Simon Young puts it, once the legions left (40,000), things rapidly went downhill. 40,000? Not after 383, probably not before either. > [@](#): > > Without Romans legions, the people very quickly had to learn how to defend themselves against enemies which Britain had: Saxons, Picts and Irish, The instability made trade break down. Goods were not longer sent long distance. Factories and cities emptied when food stopped coming through. Without an economy, taxes stopped. No one trusted money anymore. And with the state vanishing, repairs were no longer made on roads. defensive structures and aqueducts. The well known discoveries at Tintagel have shown that there was trade of a commercial nature between the West country and the Eastern empire long after the legions went. Undoubtedly internal trade was affected during times of war and slave revolt. As for money, that had been perennially devalued under the late empire, however the economic effects of that are debateable as the decline in value and stability of currency may be cancelled out by the resultant spread of the money economy. Defensive structures, however, were sometimes maintained or newly created. Roman fortifications often took the form of forward bases not suitable for siege defence, which may be one reason hill forts were reoccupied come the Saxon menace. Roads were of dubious value for their cost in a land with plenty of rivers in an era before modern wheeled vehicles, certainly metalled roads. Certainly some cities, of which British cities wre far more likely to have walls than Gaulish cities by the end of the fourth century, long survived the fall. > [@ralph124c](#): > > Are there any records of rich Brito-Romans selling out and moving to Rome? The coin hordes do suggest a rapid meltdown-one would think the rich (who had the most to lose) would be the firts to pack up and leave. Selling out to whom? They hadn’t developed the bigger sucker principle back then. Besides, Rome was besieged by 410 and soon fell. Many a Romano-Brit did leave, certainly. Procopius record the country being so heavily populated it was exporting emigrants from both English and Welsh sides of the island in his day, and certainly British colonies were set up in what’s now Britanny in France and around Corunna in Spain. > [@ralph124c](#): > > I just saw the movie “King Arthur”-preety good flick. I liked the film’s characterization og the end of Roman Brittania-the toga-clad estate owner not wanting to leave his villa, the legionaries under attack by the Saxons. > I guess the old Roman lifestyle did fall apart quickly-to be replaced by mediaeval backwardness. > Although, I always wondered-why would people abandon hot baths? That’s the fifth least historically accurate film I’ve ever seen. However, I want to oppose the notion of medieval backwardness. What do you think was backwards about the medieval period? The introduction of water mills to replace the roman’s favoured method of slaves and whips, perhaps? The overall massive decline in the slave population, maybe? As far as I’m concerned the fall of Rome was long overdue and eventually led to the development of natural and machine power, though water mills, canal gates and blast furnaces among other things, replace an economy based on the permanently entrenched reliance on massive populations of slaves. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/32 "2010-05-08T21:20:27Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I’d refer you to James Campbell’s “The Anglo-Saxons”, showing that the baths were used after the Anglo-Saxons took over the area, which in that part of the country would have been mid-late sixth century. Not so sure about other areas, where hot water relied on fire wood rather than geology, though. There’s also debate over whether lead mining was continuous, but if not it was revived in early Anglo-Saxon times. > > Christianity was introduced to the Anglo-Saxons, having survived throughout in Wales, amongst the Gwr y Gogledd and in the other surviving Cambric enclaves. > > Undoubtedly more of the tribal structure, nomenclature and language survived “barbarian” onslaught on the continent. I recommend “The English Settlements” by JNL Myers. > > 40,000? Not after 383, probably not before either. > > The well known discoveries at Tintagel have shown that there was trade of a commercial nature between the West country and the Eastern empire long after the legions went. Undoubtedly internal trade was affected during times of war and slave revolt. As for money, that had been perennially devalued under the late empire, however the economic effects of that are debateable as the decline in value and stability of currency may be cancelled out by the resultant spread of the money economy. Defensive structures, however, were sometimes maintained or newly created. Roman fortifications often took the form of forward bases not suitable for siege defence, which may be one reason hill forts were reoccupied come the Saxon menace. Roads were of dubious value for their cost in a land with plenty of rivers in an era before modern wheeled vehicles, certainly metalled roads. Certainly some cities, of which British cities wre far more likely to have walls than Gaulish cities by the end of the fourth century, long survived the fall. > > Selling out to whom? They hadn’t developed the bigger sucker principle back then. Besides, Rome was besieged by 410 and soon fell. Many a Romano-Brit did leave, certainly. Procopius record the country being so heavily populated it was exporting emigrants from both English and Welsh sides of the island in his day, and certainly British colonies were set up in what’s now Britanny in France and around Corunna in Spain. > > That’s the fifth least historically accurate film I’ve ever seen. However, I want to oppose the notion of medieval backwardness. What do you think was backwards about the medieval period? The introduction of water mills to replace the roman’s favoured method of slaves and whips, perhaps? The overall massive decline in the slave population, maybe? As far as I’m concerned the fall of Rome was long overdue and eventually led to the development of natural and machine power, though water mills, canal gates and blast furnaces among other things, replace an economy based on the permanently entrenched reliance on massive populations of slaves. Except for a few minor details, your analysis is at variance with the facts: -the Romans had water mills -canal gates and blast furnces came in with the “high” Middle Ages (about 1300 AD-1500 AD) You are right that the late medieval period was a time of innovation (surpassing the Romans); but the fact is, the end of Roman rule in Brittania led to a major collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/33 "2010-05-08T21:55:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > ermm, I think “brassieres”? There’s nothing sexy about self-immolating lighting. No, the article does say “braziers” I never heard of this word and thought it was unique to Britain. It could be a misspelling in the magazine. the “40,000” that Blindboyard wondered about refers to the number of troops, not the year they were removed (which is closer to 410 A.D., not 383) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/34 "2010-05-09T02:18:41Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > That’s the fifth least historically accurate film I’ve ever seen. What’s the least accurate? I wish to point at it and laugh. > [@](#): > > However, I want to oppose the notion of medieval backwardness. What do you think was backwards about the medieval period? OK, let’s see how good the book I have to hand is (_A World Lit Only by Fire_, William Manchester, 1992): [ul] [li]The collapse of the money economy and the re-assertion of barter.[/li][li]The Mediterranean became perilous instead of being a prime trade route.[/li][li]The establishment of ossified hereditary dynasties, as opposed to even limited Democratic practice.[/li][li]The decline of mathematical skills even among the educated classes.[/li][/ul]This book is, admittedly, not the best for what we’re discussing here, as it focuses on the 16th Century and the rise of the modern European mind. If you have suggestions for books on the Dark Ages (immediately post-Roman Western Europe especially) I am, of course, all ears. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/35 "2010-05-09T14:16:24Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > the “40,000” that Blindboyard wondered about refers to the number of troops, not the year they were removed (which is closer to 410 A.D., not 383) The troops were stripped from the island for the imperial ambitions of Maxentius in 383, and probably didn’t fully recover, is what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/36 "2010-05-09T14:31:18Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > What’s the least accurate? I wish to point at it and laugh. I believe it was called Black Knight. It had Martin Laurence in it. I don’t think historical accuracy was much of a priority for it. > [@](#): > > OK, let’s see how good the book I have to hand is (_A World Lit Only by Fire_, William Manchester, 1992): > [ul] > [li]The collapse of the money economy and the re-assertion of barter.[/li][li]The Mediterranean became perilous instead of being a prime trade route.[/li][li]The establishment of ossified hereditary dynasties, as opposed to even limited Democratic practice.[/li][li]The decline of mathematical skills even among the educated classes.[/li][/ul]This book is, admittedly, not the best for what we’re discussing here, as it focuses on the 16th Century and the rise of the modern European mind. If you have suggestions for books on the Dark Ages (immediately post-Roman Western Europe especially) I am, of course, all ears. I’d only refer you to the standard histories, primarily the Oxford university series on the history of England, I merely interpret them differently to yourself. I’d say the collapse of the money economy isn’t a particularly bas thing, and in any case didn’t last long as the Anglo-Saxons had the greatest tradition of coinage in Dark Age Europe. The Mediterranean was always full of pirates, there’s even a defeat of the Roman navy by pirates in the pro-Roman history of Josephus, at the height of the Empire’s power. And that lasted right up to the days of the barbary pirates. Mathematical skills weren’t too good amongst any race using the system of Roman numerals. And I’d say a society with low numbers of slaves, folk moots, local laws and relatively distributed land ownership, such as early Anglo-Saxon nations of the misnamed heptarchy, are more democratic than the military imperial domination and tribal/city councils of landowners and slave owners favoured by the Romans. Of course Anglo-Saxon and contemporary Welsh dynasties weren’t very stable anyway, despite the assurances of the Chronicle. And the Romans had water mills, but in hundreds of years the villa owners didn’t bother building them, while in the next few hundred years plenty of saxon thegns and gesiths did so. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/37 "2010-05-09T14:45:44Z")
Hadrian’s Wall speaks volumes about the Romans efforts to keep out the barbarians. The wall was unguarded after the troops left. It didn’t take long for them to sack Roman England. > **[Hadrian's Wall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall)** > > Hadrian's Wall (Latin: Vallum Aelium), also known as the Roman Wall, Picts' Wall, or Vallum Hadriani in Latin, is a former defensive fortification of the Roman province of Britannia, begun in AD 122 in the reign of the Emperor Hadrian. Running from Wallsend on the River Tyne in the east to Bowness-on-Solway in the west of what is now northern England, it was a stone wall with large ditches in front of it and behind it that crossed the whole width of the island. Soldiers were garrisoned along t... Discovery or maybe History had a documentary on who Arthur might have been. There was a lot of good information about the chaos after the Romans left. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/38 "2010-05-09T17:08:03Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > No, the article does say “braziers” I never heard of this word and thought it was unique to Britain. It could be a misspelling in the magazine. > the “40,000” that Blindboyard wondered about refers to the number of troops, not the year they were removed (which is closer to 410 A.D., not 383) Nobody has mentioned it, but the Romans had bikinis! This important innovation would not be seen again, till 1949! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/39 "2010-05-10T08:45:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Nobody has mentioned it, but the Romans had bikinis! This important innovation would not be seen again, till 1949! They weren’t bikinis in the swimming costume sense, though, but more likely acrobat outfits or the like. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317/40 "2010-05-10T09:57:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Nobody has mentioned it, but the Romans had bikinis! This important innovation would not be seen again, till 1949! > [@MrDibble](#): > > They weren’t bikinis in the swimming costume sense, though, but more likely acrobat outfits or the like. Details, details, mere details…cite? Link? Image link? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romans-in-post-roman-britain-could-you-keep-your-lifestyle/538317.md?page=3)