# Rome 07/01/21 (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898 "2007-01-21T23:38:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/21 "2007-01-22T18:24:01Z")
[QUOTE=Rube E. Tewesday] That was a good bit. The look on the gangstas’ faces showed that they got it: “If he’s crazy enough to smash a god, what’s he gonna do if **I** piss him off?”. [/QUOTE] Just as striking, I thought, was how he declared the truce ended, completely outnumbered, but every single one of the cut-throats were glued to their seats. This is a man who does not fear the gods nor death. What do you do when faced with _that_? > [@John Mace](#): > > No it was Niobe’s son. The adult you recognized was Niobe’s sister. I saw the youngest daughter, but not the older one. Someone needs to Tivo this scene for us. I swear I saw three women and the boy. The eldest daughter was draped over the shoulders of Niboe’s sister, who was cuddling the youngest daughter on her lap. I remember because I thought it was a very well-done shot: the women formed a pyramidical shape of darkness, with the youngest girl’s face in the center as a point of contrast. The boy stood off to the side, peering through the curtain, as if excluded from the small comfort of this family embrace. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/22 "2007-01-22T18:44:10Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wasn’t that cart part of Octavian’s caravan? Are you saying that the kids are now slaves owned by Octavian? I didn’t recognize the kids either. (They seemed like adults to me.) Except for the very last one peering through the cage. I thought it was Pullo’s son, not Vorenus’s. (Incidentally, I don’t think Mary has ever been worshipped. Only venerated.) [/QUOTE] Ah, I thought about that for a long while before I posted that about Mary being “worshipped.” So background on me, raised a Protestant: to me, it looked as if Mary were being “worshipped.” I do now accept it as veneration rather than worship, but didn’t know how to put it. There were a lot of other things that seemed to transfer from pagan worship to Christianity though–the incense, the priests, etc. Just interesting to see the parallels. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/23 "2007-01-22T18:58:41Z")
In the cart were Vorenus’s two daughters, sister-in-law, and “son.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/24 "2007-01-22T19:15:53Z")
Damn. Wow. Holy cow. I’m glad I read this thread, then, because my conception of the plot had taken a mighty weird turn. Going into next week with my comprehension, I would have been anticipating a very different set of events and circumstances. Thanks for clearing that up, everyone! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/25 "2007-01-22T19:46:53Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] Someone needs to Tivo this scene for us. I swear I saw three women and the boy. The eldest daughter was draped over the shoulders of Niboe’s sister, who was cuddling the youngest daughter on her lap. I remember because I thought it was a very well-done shot: the women formed a pyramidical shape of darkness, with the youngest girl’s face in the center as a point of contrast. The boy stood off to the side, peering through the curtain, as if excluded from the small comfort of this family embrace. [/QUOTE] I believe you when you say the older daughter was there-- I just didn’t see her. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/26 "2007-01-23T00:10:30Z")
When Attia called Cleopatra “your highness” rather than “your majesty”, was it intended to be a subtle sign of disrespect? I noticed that Cleopatra’s reaction was to say to Marc, “She is just as you described.” A possible bitchslap meaning “she’s just as dumb as I imagined”. Also, what was up with the “I’ll suck your cock” guy who was being beaten up and needed a job? The scene seemed gratuitous. I didn’t recognize the man who saved him or the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/27 "2007-01-23T00:38:29Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] When Attia called Cleopatra “your highness” rather than “your majesty”, was it intended to be a subtle sign of disrespect? I noticed that Cleopatra’s reaction was to say to Marc, “She is just as you described.” A possible bitchslap meaning “she’s just as dumb as I imagined”. Also, what was up with the “I’ll suck your cock” guy who was being beaten up and needed a job? The scene seemed gratuitous. I didn’t recognize the man who saved him or the guy. [/QUOTE] 1. Antony and Cleopatra had not talked about Attia. Cleopatra’s line was to make Attia more insecure. 2. Well the guy that saved him has been on the show since probably the begining. He’s one of Attia’s main slaves. Possible spoiler/speculation based on the previews for next week. He (meaning the kid who offered the blow job) is an assassin/spy sent by Servila to get into Attia’s home and murder/spy on her. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/28 "2007-01-23T00:43:30Z")
[QUOTE=Push You Down] 1. Antony and Cleopatra had not talked about Attia. Cleopatra’s line was to make Attia more insecure. [/quote] That was my thinking. It was Cleo telling Attia that she and Antony had discussed her (Attia), and probably not in a favorable light. > [@](#): > > 1. Well the guy that saved him has been on the show since probably the begining. He’s one of Attia’s main slaves. I believe his name is Castor (sp?). Yeah, he’s always around in Attia’s household. He’s the guy they always send to get Timon. Even Octavian used him to relay an order to Timon to get a lawyer from Pullo when he was charged with murder. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/29 "2007-01-23T00:45:14Z")
Interesting, thanks! But still, why the highness instead of majesty? Everyone else called her majesty. She is, after all, a reigning queen. Was it just ignorance on Attia’s part? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/30 "2007-01-23T00:48:02Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Interesting, thanks! But still, why the highness instead of majesty? Everyone else called her majesty. She is, after all, a reigning queen. Was it just ignorance on Attia’s part? [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. I read it as bitchiness on Attia’s part. She might be a queen but she’s still a Vassal Queen to Rome, therefore she’s shit to Attia. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/31 "2007-01-23T01:32:07Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Interesting, thanks! But still, why the highness instead of majesty? Everyone else called her majesty. She is, after all, a reigning queen. Was it just ignorance on Attia’s part? [/QUOTE] Even “majesty” is an anachronism. Royal styles weren’t standardized until a few centuries ago. Until the 17th century English monarch for example were refered to alternately as “highness”, “grace”, and “majesty” (sometimes in the same document). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/32 "2007-01-23T01:33:33Z")
The closed captioning consistently spells her name “Atia.” Is it one “T” or two? Speaking of the captioning, it was very useful in deciphering the “Die screaming you pig-born trollop” line, but rendered Antony’s come-on to Clepoatra as “\.” I find this show unwatchable in realtime; I must tape it so I can rewind various parts when I miss a line, subtext, or word I don’t recognize. Interestingly, the CC spelled “vie” when Pullo scared off the woman outside Vorenus’ place, yet later in the episode somebody else was using the same word the same way and it was spelled “vai.” Thus, I ask about the spelling of Atia because I don’t trust them to be correct. And finally, who were the two brothers, one of which just came back to Rome after 9 years? Was I supposed to recognize either of them, and did they have any scenes other than just in the one brother’s house? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/33 "2007-01-23T01:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] The closed captioning consistently spells her name “Atia.” Is it one “T” or two? [/QUOTE] Never mind, I just remembered that in the episode with all the graffiti, it was clearly and repeatedly spelled “Atia.” Not to mention that’s how both IMDB and the [official HBO Rome site](http://www.hbo.com/rome/cast/) spell it. So FYI all, it’s just one “T”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/34 "2007-01-23T02:58:03Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] The closed captioning consistently spells her name “Atia.” Is it one “T” or two? [/quote] The HBO web site spells it Atia, as does wikipedia. My bad. > [@](#): > > And finally, who were the two brothers, one of which just came back to Rome after 9 years? Was I supposed to recognize either of them, and did they have any scenes other than just in the one brother’s house? Timon (the Jew) and his brother. He’s the guy Atia hires for all her dirty work (and pays for with a little sex now and then). BTW, I re-watched the ox-cart scene, and I can see the older daughter now. And the ox cart is going in the same direction as Octavian, but it doesn’t seem to be moving at near the pace he is, so I still don’t think it’s part of his party. Might make an interesting plot twist, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/35 "2007-01-23T03:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wasn’t that cart part of Octavian’s caravan? Are you saying that the kids are now slaves owned by Octavian? [/QUOTE] I just read the episode summary on the HBO website, which said that Octavian’s caravan passed the slave transport containing the children, so they don’t belong to him. Also, if you have HBO On Demand, there is a short (under five minutes) documentary that explains more about the Aventine hill and its significance in Roman society. And in a previous thread about this show, someone thought a picture they saw on the HBO website was of Jesus, but now I think it’s Timon’s brother Levi. (Although his significance in the story line is still unclear.) ---
**Author:** ![jlrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jlrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlrepka)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/36 "2007-01-23T04:26:43Z")
[QUOTE=Rube E. Tewesday] That was a good bit. The look on the gangstas’ faces showed that they got it: “If he’s crazy enough to smash a god, what’s he gonna do if **I** piss him off?”. [/QUOTE] I’ve got to say, when Vorenus declared “I fuck Concordia in the ass!” I was waiting for one of the captains to declare “We stick people in canvas bags with poisonous snakes and submerge them!” Somehow the latter seems more impressive to me than heresy against a small wooden statue… ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/37 "2007-01-23T14:00:10Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] Interestingly, the CC spelled “vie” when Pullo scared off the woman outside Vorenus’ place, yet later in the episode somebody else was using the same word the same way and it was spelled “vai.” Thus, I ask about the spelling of Atia because I don’t trust them to be correct. [/QUOTE] Interestingly, neither of those words makes sense to me. Is “vai” latin for “go”? I assumed he was saying [fie](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fie). And, I don’t even know why I know that word. I think it’s somewhat obscure. Perhaps from crosswords. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/38 "2007-01-23T15:28:23Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk] Interestingly, neither of those words makes sense to me. Is “vai” latin for “go”? I assumed he was saying [fie](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fie). And, I don’t even know why I know that word. I think it’s somewhat obscure. Perhaps from crosswords. [/QUOTE] I don’t rememeber this particular line but _fie_ (which should be pronounced FEE-ay) in Latin is an imperative verb meaning “be done,” “be finished” (as in “YOU be done”…it’ a command). I don’t know for sure but I guess it would make sense as an all purpose expression for “Enough!” or “Scram!” ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/39 "2007-01-23T15:45:29Z")
[QUOTE=jlrepka] I’ve got to say, when Vorenus declared “I fuck Concordia in the ass!” I was waiting for one of the captains to declare “We stick people in canvas bags with poisonous snakes and submerge them!” Somehow the latter seems more impressive to me than heresy against a small wooden statue… [/QUOTE] I also had a similar thought. He was talking to a bunch of theives and cut-throats after all, I would imagine their language would be peppered by that kind of stuff. But perhaps the fear has more to do with who he is. Who wants to go up against a born-again psycho that can call up a bunch of his old legion buddies? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898/40 "2007-01-23T16:21:13Z")
Thugs they may be, but they’re superstitious thugs. They really did think that Vorenus was risking the wrath of a goddess. They may even think he really has Hades on his side. Even the cutthroats really believed in all that stuff. Even Pullo thought Vorenus was pissing on a third rail. Vorenus has just reached a point where he doesn’t care anymore and doesn’t think the gods can do anything else to him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-07-01-21-spoilers/388898.md?page=3)