# Rome 10/30 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670 "2005-10-31T03:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/21 "2005-10-31T16:30:04Z")
What show were Iris and Justin on? And I don’t think HBO cares about sweeps month. They don’t show advertising (except for commercials for the Guild of Millers), so they don’t care about rating. All they want is the buzz and awards, lots of awards. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/22 "2005-10-31T16:33:49Z")
Why was Pullo’s slave-girl so stand-offish? I thought we’d find out she had fallen for someone else while Pullo was gone… I have a feeling that Vorenus and Pullo will not be parting ways. Vorenus will probalby need a trusted aid (or enforcer 🙂 ), and Titus will be just the man for that. I have to laugh everytime I see the stairway/courtyard outside Vorenus’ apartment. I keep expecting someone to yell: STELLAAAAAAAA! ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/23 "2005-10-31T17:30:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Why was Pullo’s slave-girl so stand-offish? I thought we’d find out she had fallen for someone else while Pullo was gone… I didn’t see her as stand-offish, but more resigned to her fate. She’s a _slave_, after all. She has no choice but to submit to Pullo. I’m glad he’s gentle with her and that he does seem to care for her, but if he wanted to brutally rape her she’d have no choice. After all, even if she despised him, she has no say in her life. He could do whatever he wanted to her and she’d have to take it. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/24 "2005-10-31T18:01:17Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Incest didn’t have _quite_ the same “ick factor” in those times. It was frowned upon, but plenty of people did it. Egyptian royalty married their brothers and sisters, and possibly the common people did it was well: In some of the poetry I’ve read, beloved wives are sometimes addressed as “sister.” Didn’t one of the emporers marry his sister or mother? (I can’t quite remember.) That was Egyptian royalty, and the Romans were rather apalled by it. Incest was not practiced in Roman society, although cousins could and did marry. No Roman emperor ever married his sister, although Caligula was accused of incest with his sister and Nero was accused of incest with his mother (you are welcome to make up your own mind as to whether these accusations were true or part of a smear campaign). When Claudius amended the law so he could marry his niece Agrippina the Younger, it was something of a scandal. As to _Rome_, I find it amusing but I don’t take it very seriously. The depiction of Cleopatra as a simpering nymphette made me roll my eyes :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/25 "2005-10-31T18:02:04Z")
**sigh** Sorry guys, that above post is me, again. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/26 "2005-10-31T18:07:22Z")
It seemed like to me that Caesar invited Vorenus to be the Roman equivalent of a “precinct captain” for his neighborhood, as in machine politics. Googling around with “magistrate” isn’t much help because magistrate seems to be a generic term for any person with political power in Rome. He certainly wasn’t elevating him to Senator, his toga was plain white vs. the purple trim that only Senators were allowed to wear. But he’s certainly “untouchable” by Erestes Fulman now. Then again, in the previews it looked as if Vorenus gets to ride with Caesar in his chariot during the triumph, so Caesar still seems to see Vorenus as “special someone”. As has been noted, Vorenus does seem blessed by the gods, and it is best to keep people such as he as close as possible. I predict a long and glorious rule by this Caesar fellow! ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/27 "2005-10-31T19:24:21Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I was hoping to see Vorenius and Pullo kick some serious ass. Me too. This series has been very consistent in Lucius and Titus being brutally efficient when it comes to violence. I was expecting Erastes and his men to get a harsh lesson. Although the previews indicate different, I didn’t see Titus getting annoyed with Lucius so much as I saw Titus getting bored and brooding. A bored Titus is probably not a good thing to have around. He was probably looking forward to the fight with Erastes just to feel useful. > [@Dewey Finn](#): > > What show were Iris and Justin on? Carnivale. ---
**Author:** ![Survey1215](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Survey1215](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Survey1215)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/28 "2005-10-31T21:03:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Have you forgotten that whole episode with Marc Antony at a later time period? 😉 Well yeah, I know about that, but there’s just three episodes left in the current season (right?), and in the HBO Series timeline, a new season could be anytime in the next 22 years\* (\*so says the embittered Deadwood fan - lets GO already!) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/29 "2005-10-31T21:23:56Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Although the previews indicate different, I didn’t see Titus getting annoyed with Lucius so much as I saw Titus getting bored and brooding. My impression was that Titus was _envious_ of Lucius, and particularly of his life as a family man. Titus seems to be feeling the loneliness of a man who’s had many sex partners but never a mate. I think maybe Titus also feels that his contributions to Lucius’s success are not fully appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/30 "2005-10-31T21:28:50Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > My impression was that Titus was _envious_ of Lucius, and particularly of his life as a family man. Titus seems to be feeling the loneliness of a man who’s had many sex partners but never a mate. > > . Well, hell, I’m a straight married lady, and I would feel jealous of anyone married to Niobe. She’s way hot. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/31 "2005-10-31T21:37:09Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > My impression was that Titus was _envious_ of Lucius, and particularly of his life as a family man. Titus seems to be feeling the loneliness of a man who’s had many sex partners but never a mate. > > I think maybe Titus also feels that his contributions to Lucius’s success are not fully appreciated. I agree with that. Titus had to watch Lucius being warmly greeted by his wife and daughters ( a complete turnaround from the last time he returned) while Pullo himself had only an indifferent slave to return to. I think Pullo envies Vorenus for his family as much as as his position. The poor guy needs a girlfriend. It must be hard to come back from a war campaign and have nobody at home who cares. As for timeline, I’ve been pretty much assuming that the finale will be the Ides of March. Next season could logically focus on the ensuing war, the second triumverate. and Octavian’s rise to power. That would make logical sense, anyway. Of course, they could also end up showing the reign of Trajan. Who knows with this show? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/32 "2005-10-31T22:07:34Z")
> [@Survey1215](#): > > Well yeah, I know about that, but there’s just three episodes left in the current season (right?), and in the HBO Series timeline, a new season could be anytime in the next 22 years\* > > (\*so says the embittered Deadwood fan - lets GO already!) Wasn’t the last new episode of Sopranos shown during the Carter Administration? The next season of Sopranos is supposed to start sometime in 2006. Back to ROME. This was a so-so episode; the “you look like laundry” was pretty funny, and we found out that pissing off Atia is probably not a good idea. Other than that, the rest of the episode seem to plod along towards the incest ick factor. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/33 "2005-11-01T02:11:34Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So THAT’s why they rushed through Egypt, to get Octavian back in the fold. 😛😛😛 Sorry, couldn’t resist > [@Dewey Finn](#): > > What show were Iris and Justin on? Carnivale Justin/Iris were brother/sister there were other hints of incestuous tales spinning with that series as well ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/34 "2005-11-01T03:59:47Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > That was Egyptian royalty, and the Romans were rather apalled by it. How apalled were they really? I’ve always heard that it was something that wasn’t exactly kosher, but wouldn’t get the participants _ostracized_. As I understood it, we’re more freaked out by the idea today than they were in the past. I mean, five hundred years from now, they may look back at some of our news stories about Janet Jackson’s nipple and say that we were horrified by nudity, when most of us really don’t care. > [@](#): > > The depiction of Cleopatra as a simpering nymphette made me roll my eyes :rolleyes: _A_-fuckin’-_men_! I, too, was pretty upset by that. They completely robbed her of any dignity. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/35 "2005-11-01T13:11:58Z")
I guess I’m one of the few who really like this episode. I don’t like surprises in real life, but in scripts, I love it when a plot element that is reasonably conceived surprises me. And I must say that I was as surprised as Vorenus when Caesar appeared under the archway. That whole scene was wonderful. Caesar’s casual greeting. The thug arriving to kick ass, only to find the home fronted by Caesar’s own guards. (What might have gone through his mind?) And inside the house, Caesar was the perfect guest — polite and complimentary, gracious and appreciative. Complimenting his wife, and asking her name. Not only telling her to rise in an almost friendly tone, but _assisting_ her by offering his hand. Thanking her when she served him. Telling her the water was delicious. Naturally, Vorenus declined and spouted his usual moralisms. And I must say that I was surprised again when he emerged arm in arm with Caesar, obviously having accepted the post. Good stuff, that. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/36 "2005-11-01T14:07:07Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > How apalled were they really? I’ve always heard that it was something that wasn’t exactly kosher, but wouldn’t get the participants _ostracized_. As I understood it, we’re more freaked out by the idea today than they were in the past. Are you talking about Egyptians, or Romans? Your average Egyptian Joe married to his sister in Alexandria would never get to Rome to _be_ ostracized. Cleopatra and the other Ptolemies were royalty, it was prudent to look the other way, especially when Cleopatra was Caesar’s main squeeze. But yes, incest was usually one of the first charges levelled against a Roman in a smear campaign, because the Romans were grossed out by it. Pretty much every “mad emperor” was accused of schtupping some female family member. Some of the accusations may have been true, while others were doubtlessly invented to destroy the accusee’s reputation. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/37 "2005-11-01T14:25:43Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Wasn’t the last new episode of Sopranos shown during the Carter Administration? The next season of Sopranos is supposed to start sometime in 2006. When it finally does, who wants to bet that HBO will treat use to a scene where Antony Jr ( who will be in his early forties by this time ) tries to get a leg over on his sister? ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/38 "2005-11-01T15:19:12Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > My impression was that Titus was _envious_ of Lucius, and particularly of his life as a family man. Titus seems to be feeling the loneliness of a man who’s had many sex partners but never a mate. > > I think maybe Titus also feels that his contributions to Lucius’s success are not fully appreciated. I don’t disagree at all. In fact, I should have mentioned the envy as well. Still, I think Titus not having a purpose (soldiering) is a big part of why the other things are surfacing. Obviously Titus is still intensely loyal to Lucius as shown several times when he comes to Lucius’s defense. Further more, defending Lucius gives Titus a purpose. I think the problem is going to be that there is no place for Titus at Lucius’s side in politics. Yes, Titus is also jealous of Niobe, but I think (hope) it’s more about Lucius having that to come home to than it is about Niobe herself. > [@DMark](#): > > Wasn’t the last new episode of Sopranos shown during the Carter Administration? Close, but I think it was March through June of 2004. (I get your point though). 🙂 Like **Survey1215** mentioned, I’m looking more forward to Deadwood at this point, but we got season 2 of Deadwood in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/39 "2005-11-01T15:41:43Z")
I enjoyed this episode a lot. I liked Vorenus’s confrontation with Erestes. His demeanor was truly scary. I like that Niobe refused to even ask him to kiss the man’s feet, showing that she shares the same values and honor as Vorenus. And Caesar was totally cool. Also: Don’t try to fool Octavian. Nothing gets past him. I love that character. As for Titus, I don’t think he’s jealous of Niobe in a physical sense. Until tonight’s episode, every time he looked on Vorenus and his family he seemed to have a look of serenity or almost pride about it. And I think he saw himself as almost part of the family. What’s got him upset now is that A) he sees Vorenus moving on, and Titus being left behind, B) He may feel somewhat unappreciated. Hell, I know I would. He went from being ready to lay down his life for his friend to being just part of the crowd as his friend is embraced by Caesar. He knows that Vorenus’s new station is going to change their relationship, and so far Vorenus has shown no sign at all that he recognizes how intensely loyal Pullo has been. Of course, that could change at any time (and lest we forget, Vorenus also saved HIS life, several times, so maybe no one is owed anything). But I don’t think we’ve seen the end of that relationship. In a way, the entire story in _Rome_ is anchored around those two. I suspect Titus will be given a position of some importance by Vorenus. Or perhaps the growing knowledge of Niobe’s illegitimate child will start cropping up in ways that can hurt Vorenus, and Pullo will decide to do something about it. Anyway, good episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670/40 "2005-11-01T16:21:57Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > But I don’t think we’ve seen the end of that relationship. In a way, the entire story in _Rome_ is anchored around those two. I suspect Titus will be given a position of some importance by Vorenus. Or perhaps the growing knowledge of Niobe’s illegitimate child will start cropping up in ways that can hurt Vorenus, and Pullo will decide to do something about it. My husband thinks that Titus’ resentment will continue to grow, and it may become hatred. He thinks Titus may start working for that-criminal-guy-whose-name-escapes-me, and will somehow become involved in the plot to assasinate Ceasar, leading to a confrontation between Titus and Lucius with deadly consequences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-10-30-open-spoilers/328670.md?page=3)