# Rome, a.d. IIII NON. MART. MMDCCLX A.U.C. (spoilers)

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [March 19, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503 "2007-03-19T01:02:29Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/1 "2007-03-19T01:02:29Z")

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Finally we get to the Anthony & Cleopatra stuff. 🙂 So will Atia actually live to see her son become Augusts and First Citizen?

P.S. Wow, that was one creepy looking whore! :eek:

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**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/2 "2007-03-19T01:42:09Z")

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[QUOTE=alphaboi867]  
Finally we get to the Anthony & Cleopatra stuff. 🙂 So will Atia actually live to see her son become Augusts and First Citizen?  
[/QUOTE]

Historically, she

died in 43 BC, before Brutus and the rest of the “Liberators” were defeated

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**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/3 "2007-03-19T01:50:53Z")

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I know when the real Atia died, but this version of Atia is decidedly different than the real one 😉 . Finally we got to see some skin from Octavian.

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**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/4 "2007-03-19T02:05:24Z")

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It was sad to see the previews of the next episode, knowing it’s the last one. I really wish they were doing another season.

BTW, is there any historical basis for the idea that Octavian liked to beat his wife?

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**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/5 "2007-03-19T02:10:44Z")

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[QUOTE=Dewey Finn]

BTW, is there any historical basis for the idea that Octavian liked to beat his wife?  
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know, but if the writers made it up, I’d like to know why. What does a bit of kink add to his character? We already know he’s got issues.

Crossing my fingers that Pullo and Vorenus both survive, but I’m not making any bets.

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**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/6 "2007-03-19T02:14:42Z")

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[QUOTE=Dewey Finn]  
It was sad to see the previews of the next episode, knowing it’s the last one. I really wish they were doing another season.

BTW, is there any historical basis for the idea that Octavian liked to beat his wife?  
[/QUOTE]

He was an notorious womanizer (& manizer too), but Livia, like a proper Roman wife, payed no attention to it. Livia was held up as a role model for Roman matrons (she was declared a goddess after her death and women were to swear to her in their oaths). Augustus granted her unprecedented honors like being allowed to control her own finances and gave her the title _Augusta_ in his will. She was also quite a schemer and got Augustus to name her son, Tiberius, as his heir.

> [@](#):
>
> What does a bit of kink add to his character? We already know he’s got issues.

Well, why would Octavian enjor being beaten by women? 😉 I think he has mommy issues.

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/7 "2007-03-19T02:51:29Z")

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Even though there is no historical evidence that Augustus was into S&M (he was a philanderer but he was not alleged to have been sadistic or abusive to his sexual partners), I think that the characterization of Livia is amusing for the purposes of the show. She’s just as weird as he is, and now we see that she’s just as quick on the uptake as he is politically. They’re peas in a pod. On the whole, her characterization is not that much out of line with how she’s really described by Suetonius. She was publicly very respectful and dutiful, scrupulously faithful, despite his own dalliances, made efforts to be accomdating privately and execrcised a great deal of influence behind the scenes. They were married for 50 years, even though Livia never gave him any living children and Augie respected her greatly. The show is giving us bright outlines, very quickly, as to why he liked her and why he never divorced her evev though she never produced a natural heir.

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**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/8 "2007-03-19T04:07:54Z")

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Great episode. They managed to convey the passage of the years quite well, and there was ample nudity. But I have a bad feeling about the last episode. I’m afraid they’re going to ring in the old Roman story of the two brothers who end up on opposite sides in a civil war and end up killing each other That would really piss me off and make my wife cry, but I don’t see any way out of it.

Previews seem to indicate that we see at least a portion of Actium.

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**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/9 "2007-03-19T09:06:27Z")

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I absolutely loved the scene with Cleopatra and the bow.  
When Attia and Octavia were waiting outside, and Cleopatra nodded to her servant while being rogered vigorously, what was she signalling? To tell Poscca and Jocasta to go out and talk to Attia and Octavia? My friend and I were expecting her signal to be to admit Attia and Octavia right while Cleopatra and Antony were getting it on, as a who-is-alpha-female move.

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**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/10 "2007-03-19T10:27:35Z")

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I thought it was an “admittance” signal as well, but it must have been something more subtle.

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**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/11 "2007-03-19T12:31:32Z")

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I thought it was “Okay, you can leave now.”

Lots of angry sex in this episode. I thought Octavian married Livia for her “proven fertility;” did he have children with any other women?

Maybe it’s because I caught the Lady Heather episode of _CSI_ on Spike on Sunday, but I thought since Octavian is so domineering in his public life, he likes to be a tad bit submissive in his private life. I was surprised, given what he told Livia, that he let him hit her though.

I know there’s a lot of dramatic license here, but surely the war between Octavian and Antony was not precipitated because Antony dissed his wife at Cleopatra’s palace? How did that really come about?

If they could do more seasons, then we could have seen more of Antony in Egypt, instead of “Five years later…” ☹

It was funny to see Antony and Posca go so completely “native.” And I thought Memmio was dead…dayum!

The end with Gaia and Pullo…wow. Pullo goes completely cold and dead, and the strangulation scene…that was really hard to watch. I assume she was tossed into the local cesspool?

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**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/12 "2007-03-19T12:35:19Z")

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The end with Gaia and Pullo…wow. Pullo goes completely cold and dead, and the strangulation scene…that was really hard to watch. I assume she was tossed into the local cesspool?  
\<\<\<  
He was a bit scary in that scene- but since I was annoyed as hell to see them playing the happy couple in the beginning- I was pretty satisfied with the outcome.

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**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/13 "2007-03-19T13:19:09Z")

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Gaia was a tough woman, and had she met Pullo under other circumstances, they might have been happy together. As it was, she did the same thing he did; eliminate the romantic rival to win the heart of the one she loved.

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**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/14 "2007-03-19T13:30:17Z")

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As it was, she did the same thing he did; eliminate the romantic rival to win the heart of the one she loved.\<\<

I didn’t think of that- but perhaps that is because Gaia ,pre “beating” scene, doesn’t seem to be in love with Pullo and is basically trying to get into (or already into) the pants of any one of the three Aventine men (Vorenus , the 3rd guy whose name escapes me, and finally Pullo). Granted their beating/sex scene was hot but I didn’t think it was as much about love as it was Gaia’s need to control a powerful man. Of course, now with Vorenus gone, Pullo is number one so that could explain her change in attitude- she tried to get Vorenus, but was rejected and then decided Pullo was just as good. On the other hand, Pullo genuinely loved Eirene and had already fostered a fantasy about marrying her and being happy with her. He reacted to the news of her fiancee without thinking, whereas Gaia deliberately planned Eirene’s death with a motive of revenge (for treating her like a slave) moreso than feeling she was a romantic rival.

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**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/15 "2007-03-19T16:20:37Z")

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Who was the guy in the cage?

I can see Pullo and Vorenus fighting over Cessarian (sp). Both will most likely die though I am guessing Pullo bites it.

Alternatively, Pullo could be captured trying to parlay with Voernus and made to fight Vorenus for sport (after Vorenus is blamed for Poska leaving).

Just some WAGs.

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**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/16 "2007-03-19T16:24:36Z")

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[QUOTE=Lochdale]  
Who was the guy in the cage?

[/QUOTE]

Memmio, a rival gang leader. Pullo bit his tongue off in the brawl last week, and apparently he didn’t die. :eek:

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**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/17 "2007-03-19T16:25:35Z")

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[QUOTE=Lochdale]  
Who was the guy in the cage?

[/QUOTE]

Memmio (sp), the guy whose tongue Pullo bit off.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/18 "2007-03-19T16:39:25Z")

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Yikes! He kept in that cage for 5 years! That’s freaking obscene!

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**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/19 "2007-03-19T17:37:21Z")

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[QUOTE=ivylass]  
I know there’s a lot of dramatic license here, but surely the war between Octavian and Antony was not precipitated because Antony dissed his wife at Cleopatra’s palace? How did that really come about?  
[/QUOTE]

From what I understand, Antony dismissing his wife was merely the pretext for Octavian to declare war on him, and something Octavian was counting on. As he discussed with Pullo, Antony was popular with the people, and the people would never support a war against him.

But Antony choosing Cleopatra his wife, coupled with his will, showed that Antony had gone native, choosing Egypt over Rome. Antony had in effect betrayed Rome.

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**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-a-d-iiii-non-mart-mmdcclx-a-u-c-spoilers/396503/20 "2007-03-19T18:16:56Z")

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Right, I got that, but what happened IRL that made the hostilities more open?

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