# Rome thread redux (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890 "2015-01-26T00:02:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/61 "2015-01-29T16:10:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You don’t have to strain your story coming up with reasons why these two minor nobodies happened to always be in the vicinity when anything important happened. Of course, in the show, there are plenty of scenes in which neither Vorenus nor Pullo is present. That said, I found the show far richer for including storylines of the non-great. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/62 "2015-01-29T16:22:03Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > That _was_ annoying, especially since Caesarion ended up being older than Mrs. Vorenus’s baby. Also annoying was how a show that spared no expense in sets spent no expense on battle sequences- it was like seeing a Shakespearean play: “Verily, a kickass mother of a battle hath transpired offstage just yon! Thou shouldst have seen it” Sets can be reused, but battle sequences can’t be. Even Game of Thrones generally avoids big battle scenes, and the ones it does show are CGI. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/63 "2015-01-29T16:22:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which, oddly, is what I said. > > Or we can say “Today, we dont know where Caesar crossed the Rubicon”. Or “The spot where Caesar crossed the Rubicon is unknown today.” Or… It sure looked like you were saying that we don’t know where the Rubicon was/is, which is untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Tuxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tuxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuxie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/64 "2015-01-29T16:23:25Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > That _was_ annoying, especially since Caesarion ended up being older than Mrs. Vorenus’s baby. Also annoying was how a show that spared no expense in sets spent no expense on battle sequences- it was like seeing a Shakespearean play: “Verily, a kickass mother of a battle hath transpired offstage just yon! Thou shouldst have seen it” That was something else I noticed too. We are always seeing the aftermath of the battles. There are a lot of scenes with the losers of battles (Pompeii, Brutus/Cassius, Mark Antony) that in spite of their descriptions given don’t really illustrate why they failed; it’s like seeing someone describe the outcome of a incorrectly guessed coin toss. -Why did so many of them commit suicide? Pride? Fear? Cleopatra tricked Mark Antony into killing himself in the hopes she herself could survive the situation, but when that didn’t pan out she killed herself anyway. -Why would slaves be willing to kill themselves after their masters? Whose loyalty do you have to prove when your boss is dead? Are they figuring they’ll still be serving them in the afterlife ( perhaps under more favorable conditions) ? " These lions you gave me refuse to pull my chariot. They bit my finest groom!" " Um, I have a giraffe, perhaps that? " “What the FUCK am I supposed to do with a giraffe?!” There’s a scene I wished they filmed 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tuxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tuxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuxie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/65 "2015-01-29T16:30:49Z")
Then later they could’ve shown Posca and his wife fleeing the palace for the boats on the back of the unwanted giraffe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/66 "2015-01-29T17:55:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It sure looked like you were saying that we don’t know where the Rubicon was/is, which is untrue. Or \*you \*misunderstood my post. Why are you continuing this hijack? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/67 "2015-01-30T04:04:36Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > it was like seeing a Shakespearean play: “Verily, a kickass mother of a battle hath transpired offstage just yon! Thou shouldst have seen it” This was how they handled Antony’s speech at Caesar’s funeral. They showed neither funeral nor speech, simply some mooks afterwards commenting on what a kickass speech Antony gave. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/68 "2015-01-30T07:39:43Z")
> [@Tuxie](#): > > -Why did so many of them commit suicide? Pride? Fear? Cleopatra tricked Mark Antony into killing himself in the hopes she herself could survive the situation, but when that didn’t pan out she killed herself anyway. Well, that bit of the series was as much influenced by Shakespeare as anything else, so your best bet to understand why Antony and Cleopatra topped themselves will be literary commentary on _Antony and Cleopatra_. But beyond that, suicide was somewhat common among the Roman aristocracy - they took the whole “death before dishonor” thing more seriously than Ted Nugent :). > [@](#): > > -Why would slaves be willing to kill themselves after their masters? Whose loyalty do you have to prove when your boss is dead? Are they figuring they’ll still be serving them in the afterlife ( perhaps under more favorable conditions) ? Slavery in Ancient Rome was a complicated beast. Traditionally, a house’s slaves were \*actual \*parts of the family - they lived and ate with their masters, participated in the house’s religious ceremonies, they weren’t chained or routinely beaten and demeaned or what have you - those would be stigmata of American, or at least 17th century slavery. So when they kill themselves along with their master, they do it out of love and familial duty. In a similar vein, Posca isn’t just Caesar’s dogsbody, he’s quite evidently a devoted friend too. Caveat : that all shifted around the time of the series, and the dawn of the Empire. Roman conquests created a gigantic influx of slaves, and their status and conditions deteriorated a lot as a result (for various reasons), as did their public image so to speak. From then on they really became just “things”, or “animals”, if only for the reason the Spartans shat daily on their helots : when your slaves outnumber you 20:1, it behooves you to take steps to make them believe they can’t possibly even dream of taking over. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/69 "2015-01-30T13:37:47Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > This was how they handled Antony’s speech at Caesar’s funeral. They showed neither funeral nor speech, simply some mooks afterwards commenting on what a kickass speech Antony gave. Which is as it should be. If you showed the speech, either you do Shakespeare or you get vilified by the audience (who will vilify you if you do Shakespeare.) The speech is a lose/lose for the producers. Much better to leave it off-stage. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/70 "2015-01-30T14:54:11Z")
[QUOTE=Kobal2] Slavery in Ancient Rome was a complicated beast. Traditionally, a house’s slaves were actual parts of the family - they lived and ate with their masters, participated in the house’s religious ceremonies, they weren’t chained or routinely beaten and demeaned or what have you - those would be stigmata of American, or at least 17th century slavery. So when they kill themselves along with their master, they do it out of love and familial duty. In a similar vein, Posca isn’t just Caesar’s dogsbody, he’s quite evidently a devoted friend too. Caveat : that all shifted around the time of the series, and the dawn of the Empire. Roman conquests created a gigantic influx of slaves, and their status and conditions deteriorated a lot as a result (for various reasons), as did their public image so to speak. From then on they really became just “things”, or “animals”, if only for the reason the Spartans shat daily on their helots : when your slaves outnumber you 20:1, it behooves you to take steps to make them believe they can’t possibly even dream of taking over. [/QUOTE] Correct me if I am wrong, but were not most of the slaves shown committing suicide, body slaves. IIRC, those were people who were with their masters/mistresses year in year out for decades, and were often the closest individual to their masters. A common cook, or a cleaning woman would not obtain that sort of familiarity and affection. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/71 "2015-01-30T16:58:39Z")
Was Cato supposed to be a stroke victim? The actor portraying him does this weird rictus & squint thing with his face with pretty much every line he has. Was that his interpretation of a Stoic? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/72 "2015-01-30T18:10:48Z")
Another favorite line was Pullo talking about what a nice guy Cicero and how he wasn’t stuck up liked you’d expect from a celebrity of his caliber, this on the day that he went to kill him. Also liked him asking Cicero’s permission to pick some of his peaches while Cicero’s getting ready to die. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890/73 "2015-01-30T18:25:08Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Was Cato supposed to be a stroke victim? The actor portraying him does this weird rictus & squint thing with his face with pretty much every line he has. Was that his interpretation of a Stoic? [Yez, I s’ppose](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rome-thread-redux-spoilers/710890.md?page=3)