# Romeo & Juliet - beloved romance? (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281 "2008-02-12T14:48:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/1 "2008-02-12T14:48:55Z")
There’s a radio ad playing in the Boston area now for [Romeo and Juliet](http://bostonballet.org/season/performances/RomeoandJuliet.html) at the Boston Ballet. The ad describes it as “Shakespeare’s most beloved romance”, which really bugs me. After all, they both die at the end, due mostly to confusion and stupidity. It’s a great play, and a great story, but to describe it as a “beloved romance” to try to attract the Valentine’s crowd just seems wrong. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/2 "2008-02-12T14:53:10Z")
It’s a romance to the “They died together” crowd. Hardly seems like one to me. They spend one night together then both of them kill themselves. Makes me think they had compatability issues at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/3 "2008-02-12T15:04:24Z")
It’s a tragedy, not a romance. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/4 "2008-02-12T15:27:44Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] It’s a tragedy, not a romance. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but that’s just the author’s opinion. In today’s world, that doesn’t matter for much, especially when you’re trying to put asses in seats. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/5 "2008-02-12T15:31:39Z")
Of course it’s a romance: [QUOTE=American Heritage Dictionary] ``` 1. **A love affair.** 2. **Ardent emotional attachment or involvement between people; love:** They kept the romance alive in their marriage for 35 years. 3. **A strong, sometimes short-lived attachment, fascination, or enthusiasm for something:** a childhood romance with the sea. 4. A long medieval narrative in prose or verse that tells of the adventures and heroic exploits of chivalric heroes: an Arthurian romance. 5. A long fictitious tale of heroes and extraordinary or mysterious events, usually set in a distant time or place. 6. The class of literature constituted by such tales. 7. **An artistic work, such as a novel, story, or film, that deals with sexual love, especially in an idealized form.** 8. The class or style of such works. ``` [/QUOTE] (Emphasis added.) Romances don’t have to end happily. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/6 "2008-02-12T15:54:19Z")
At its core, Romeo and Juliet is a love story. Agreed, it’s also a tragedy about two families whose long-standing feud leads to the death of several of their heirs, two of whom die as a result of their own stupidity… but that doesn’t change the fact that the two central characters set events in motion by falling foolishly in love, which makes it a romance. As **TWDuke** points out, not all romances end happily. That particular requirement is usually limited to Harlequin Romances. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/7 "2008-02-12T16:07:02Z")
IMO, it isn’t primarily a romance, even if it has romantic elements. It’s a tragedy about a bitter feud that not even True Love ™ can overcome. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/8 "2008-02-12T16:11:54Z")
Didn’t “romance” originally mean just an overblown tale of high adventure? Not that R&J is one of those. Just saying. EDIT: Oops, overlooked the dictionary ep posted above! Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/9 "2008-02-12T17:02:26Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] It’s a tragedy, not a romance. [/QUOTE] It’s a Romantic Tragedy. It’s two–two–two plays in one! ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/10 "2008-02-12T17:03:00Z")
Actually love does end the feud, not that it does Romeo or Juliet much good. ETA: You got romance in my tragedy. You got tragedy in my romance! ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/11 "2008-02-12T17:24:38Z")
The plays are broken up into Histories, Comdies, and Tragedies and some people call some of his plays romances, but romance was not a term used at the time. here is a [cite.](http://www.answers.com/topic/shakespeare-s-late-romances) They put the following features to a Shakespeare romance. > [@](#): > > A redemptive plotline with a happy ending involving the re-uniting of long-separated family members; > > Magic and other fantastical elements; > > A deus ex machina, often manifesting as a Roman god (such as Jupiter in Cymbeline or Diana in Pericles); > > A mixture of “civilized” and “pastoral” scenes (such as the gentry and the island residents in The Tempest); > > “…and the poetry is a return to the lyrical style of the early plays, though more mellow and profound.”[1] Romeo and Juliet is in the tragedy column. Some people subdivide it to a "Love Tragedy with Othello and Anthony and Cleopatra. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/12 "2008-02-12T19:19:52Z")
**Zebra** : I think those are more accurately called “the problem plays”. 😃 I know some editors lump them in with the comedies, which always pinged wrong to me (how is _Timon of Athens_ a _comedy_?) And it may not technically be a romance, but it _is_ beloved. Mention Shakespeare to the average person, and I will bet you a very expensive pint of chocolate Godiva ice cream that they flash on two plays: _Hamlet_, or _Romeo and Juliet_. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/13 "2008-02-12T20:46:01Z")
Timon and Pumba and Athens is pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/14 "2008-02-12T22:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Timon and Pumba and Athens is pretty funny. [/QUOTE] Now THAT’S a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romeo-juliet-beloved-romance-spoilers/437281/15 "2008-02-13T03:13:19Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] There’s a radio ad playing in the Boston area now for [Romeo and Juliet](http://bostonballet.org/season/performances/RomeoandJuliet.html) at the Boston Ballet. The ad describes it as “Shakespeare’s most beloved romance”, which really bugs me. After all, they both die at the end, due mostly to confusion and stupidity. It’s a great play, and a great story, but to describe it as a “beloved romance” to try to attract the Valentine’s crowd just seems wrong. What do you think? [/QUOTE] How are confusion & stupidity not hallmarks of romance? I know I get stupid & confused.