# Romney 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562 "2014-08-26T16:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/41 "2014-08-27T15:10:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In fact, all the Democrats’ biggest heroes come from old money. But not their presidential nominees. This is about as ridiculous as the Clinton-Biden “we’re not rich!”-off from a couple of months ago. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/42 "2014-08-27T15:11:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So the wealth doesn’t actually matter, it’s being liberal. Pretty much. You can be poor and mean as easily as you can be rich and thoughtful; wealth doesn’t really affect basic personality or sense of community. > [@](#): > > we can paint Hillary as an out of touch rich lady. Well, you can try, sure. > [@](#): > > While the GOP candidate is the guy you’d like to have a beer with. Remember how that turned out the last time? Seriously, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/43 "2014-08-27T15:26:10Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > You sure about that? Back in 2012 I distinctly remember Mitt describing it as a Conservative, physically debilitating disease. _Severely_ conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/44 "2014-08-27T15:31:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I know, I know, only Democrats are allowed to nominate patrician candidates, and then it’s a positive thing. In fact, all the Democrats’ biggest heroes come from old money. The difference is the Roosevelts and the Kennedys weren’t looking to take care of rich people like themselves. Wealthy people trying to help the poor can be noble. Wealthy people trying to protect their wealth is self-serving. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/45 "2014-08-27T15:31:31Z")
It’s going to be Rubio. I’ve been saying that since 2012, and I see no reason to change my mind now. No, we haven’t seen much news about him lately… but given the kind of news we have been seeing lately from Republican presidential hopefuls, no news is good news. Romney’s problem isn’t his wealth per se. It’s that he’s so incredibly ignorant of anything but wealth. He doesn’t even seem to realize that the non-wealthy exist. His advice to struggling families is to get a handout of tens of thousands of dollars from their parents, and doesn’t even fathom that for the vast majority of Americans, that’s impossible. The Kennedies might never have had first-hand experience with poverty, but they at least knew that it existed, and could empathize. And amazingly, I actually agree with **adaher** that Gore could do well, if he wanted to run. Unfortunately, though, the chances of him choosing to do so are somewhere between slim and none. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/46 "2014-08-27T15:35:28Z")
No reason other than his complete and utter lack of popularity with the GOP base since the second he even hinted at wanting to pass immigration reform? Rubio is like dead last among the current crop of possible nominees and i seriously doubt he can do anything to climb back up at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/47 "2014-08-27T15:42:05Z")
The big issue Romney supporters have to face is that he lost in 2012. So how are they going to address that in 2016? 1. Not address it. Do everything the same. 2. Change Romney. Acknowledge that the guy who ran in 2012 didn’t succeed. Admit this was a problem. Create a New Romney. 3. Blame Obama. Argue that Romney is a good candidate who would beat most opponents. But Obama was too good. However he can take whoever will be running in 2016. There are flaws in all three arguments. 1. If you do everything the same, that will include losing another election. Romney needs to change something. 2. If Romney is going to present himself as different he needs to acknowledge his previous campaign didn’t work and start over. He hasn’t done this and his supporters aren’t pushing him to do it. 3. This flies in the face of the ongoing claim that Obama is the worst President ever. If Obama is the worst then you have to assume the 2016 Democratic candidate will be better. Which means Romney, who lost to Obama, will have to compete against a stronger candidate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/48 "2014-08-27T16:53:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But not their presidential nominees. This is about as ridiculous as the Clinton-Biden “we’re not rich!”-off from a couple of months ago. The ones they revere the most did come from old money: Kennedy, Roosevelt. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/49 "2014-08-27T16:54:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Remember how that turned out the last time? Seriously, do you? Seriously, do you actually think Romney won the “Guy I’d like to have a beer with” aspect of the campaign? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/50 "2014-08-27T16:55:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The difference is the Roosevelts and the Kennedys weren’t looking to take care of rich people like themselves. Wealthy people trying to help the poor can be noble. Wealthy people trying to protect their wealth is self-serving. How much estate tax do the Kennedys pay when one of them drops? I thought so. THe dirty little secret about the super wealthy is that they want to stick it to the mere millionaires and six figure incomes. They would never, ever, allow their wealth to actually be taken by the government via the estate tax. ---
**Author:** ![Osiris\_the\_1st](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/51 "2014-08-27T16:56:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s going to be Rubio. I’ve been saying that since 2012, and I see no reason to change my mind now. I just don’t see the conservative base getting behind him; they’re still too obsessed with illegal immigration (though he seemes to be moving more toward the tea party on that issue recently). And he may be too ethnic for the old white folks. “But what about Bobby Jindal?” you may say. First off his name is Bobby, one of the whitest sounding names out there. He also has that stupid accent, so he sounds a lot like the base. He’s also an evangellical Christian whom claims to have once exorcised a demon. So he has completely embraced and assimilated the values and characteristics of the conservative base, and there is nothing that they love more that someone with brown skin telling them they are right. Immitation is the highest form of flattery, after all. Marco Rubio may do well in areas where there are high concentrations of conservatives with a Cuban background, but I think he’s still too scary for old, white, Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/52 "2014-08-27T17:01:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > How much estate tax do the Kennedys pay when one of them drops? Do you have an actual number here? Or are you just liberal bashing? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/53 "2014-08-27T17:02:27Z")
Rubio has no chance. He dared to attempt to address immigration at one point and had to drop it like a hot potato. Republican primary voters aren’t going to vote for anyone they perceive as soft on immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/54 "2014-08-27T17:09:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The ones they revere the most did come from old money: Kennedy, Roosevelt. FDR has been dead for 70 years. RFK and JFK have been dead for 45 and 50 years and Teddy, also dead, last ran for president 30 years ago. Who gives a crap? This is not in any way a relevant comparison to Mitt Romney. None of the current Democratic candidates are likely to be “old money.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/55 "2014-08-27T17:23:17Z")
In the interest of starting a partisan lovefest, I’ll say both parties adopt these kinds of attacks at their convenience. Republicans couldn’t stop talking about John Kerry’s wealthy out-of-touch-ness in 2004 because Bush, also rich, seemed homespun. In 2012 Democrats made hay out of Romney’s wealth. In general these things matter more when they play into a candidate’s faults or persona. After all, nobody really gave a shit (pro or con) that Bush was very very rich, and they probably won’t care that Hillary is rich. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/56 "2014-08-27T17:25:58Z")
> **[How The $1 Billion Kennedy Family Fortune Defies Death And Taxes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlodonnell/2014/07/08/how-the-1-billion-kennedy-family-fortune-defies-death-and-taxes-3/)** > > The sustaining force behind the Kennedy's reign is hardly a secret. Thanks to Joseph P. Kennedy, who made a fortune from insider trading only to later chair the SEC, the family is fabulously rich. But exactly how much is America’s first family worth? Given how quickly these folks drop, the government would have whittled the Kennedys family fortune down a great deal if they weren’t so talented at protecting it. And it’s not the only taxes the Kennedy family bend over backwards to avoid. They use tax strategies that are very difficult for the merely wealthy to use. The old money of the Democratic Party’s obligation to the poor has always been to make people less rich than them pay more taxes. As America’s royalty, and since it was their idea to be so generous, they are exempt. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/57 "2014-08-27T17:28:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In the interest of starting a partisan lovefest, I’ll say both parties adopt these kinds of attacks at their convenience. Republicans couldn’t stop talking about John Kerry’s wealthy out-of-touch-ness in 2004 because Bush, also rich, seemed homespun. In 2012 Democrats made hay out of Romney’s wealth. In general these things matter more when they play into a candidate’s faults or persona. After all, nobody really gave a shit (pro or con) that Bush was very very rich, and they probably won’t care that Hillary is rich. I’d say that’s wishful thinking. Hillary is incapable of being authentic and every word she says is politically calculated, and unlike Barack Obama, isn’t able to fake it long enough to win a campaign. If Hillary Clinton becomes President, it will be because she made the election about competence, leadership, and issues, not personality. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/58 "2014-08-27T17:28:44Z")
How about Scott Brown? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/59 "2014-08-27T17:29:51Z")
How about Joe Biden, for the longest time the poorest member of the Senate? I’m not sure why he doesn’t get much love. If Hillary Clinton stays out, doesn’t Biden have to be considered “next”? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562/60 "2014-08-27T17:30:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d say that’s wishful thinking. Hillary is incapable of being authentic and every word she says is politically calculated, and unlike Barack Obama, isn’t able to fake it long enough to win a campaign. > > If Hillary Clinton becomes President, it will be because she made the election about competence, leadership, and issues, not personality. And once again we’re off to another subject unrelated to the rest of the discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-2016/696562.md?page=4)