# Romney and taxes: Morally unfit to be President **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492 "2012-01-24T11:49:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/21 "2012-01-24T14:33:26Z")
It’s not a moral issue (or at least not a personal one), it’s a public policy issue, IMO. And it’s not like the other GOP choice is better - as Mitt pointed out, if Newt got his way Romney would have paid almost no federal income taxes. The counter-argument that he is in the top 1% of taxpayers is ludicrous when you don’t mention that he’s in the top 0.1% of earners. And if you think that giving $3 million to the Church of LDS is going to save him with evangelicals you don’t understand evangelicals. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/22 "2012-01-24T14:34:11Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > He paid more in tax for that one year than I’m going to do for my whole working life. And in addition $3 million in charity. I wonder how that compares to his detractors in this thread. And? He probably has more money than all of us as well. And he wants the rest of us to shoulder the burden of the debt created by his ever-dropping taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/23 "2012-01-24T14:34:30Z")
As to the solution, I like the one posted (by **Martin Hyde** maybe?) in another thread. All income over $1 million (from any source) is taxed at the the top marginal rate. This is very similar to the Buffett Rule, I think, but probably even simpler. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/24 "2012-01-24T14:36:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And in addition $3 million in charity. I wonder how that compares to his detractors in this thread. But anyway, you should all vote Ron Paul. That’s a no brainer. Well, Warren Buffet (to name one detractor) gave $37 billion to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, so ol’ Mitt has some catching up to do. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/25 "2012-01-24T14:37:37Z")
What makes you think 15% is lower than most people pay? Most households pay 0%. We’ve been over this many, many times. Looks like he’s in the [fourth quintile](http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/collections.cfm?collect=13). > [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > I don’t care if Romney’s 15% is going to dwarf my tax contributions for life, the point is that the rich have been seeing some pretty ridiculous gains as time has gone on (by no real efforts of their own, just favorable legislation), so of course tax contributions are going to be a lower percentage (especially with capital gains being arbitrarily set to historical lows). I’m glad we can finally get a liberal to come out and admit what this is really about- jealousy. They don’t care what the rate is, they just want to stick it to the rich, who they falsely perceive as not having done anything to earn their money. ETA: They also want to handwave [this chart](http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/figure2.png), which is really the important one when “fairness” is discussed. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/26 "2012-01-24T14:37:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So it is morally wrong to donate your money to charity, instead of hanging onto it until the government takes it by force? So your complaint is that he isn’t being forced to do what he is doing already. > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, it is morally wrong to donate money to charity, you are as astute as always. With the charitable deductions, he pays 3m on 18m instead of 3.35 on 21m. Not a big part of this. Or are you one of the people that thought charitable deductions means you deduct it from your net tax payments? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/27 "2012-01-24T14:38:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This isn’t Romney specific. The general republican idea that instead of easing up on historically low taxes for the rich, we need to bust unions and close schools and stop infrastructure projects and lay off cops is widely accepted. As opposed to all of the Democrats that willingly pay more in taxes than they need to because it’s the right thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/28 "2012-01-24T14:40:55Z")
So, I’m guessing that for ‘moral’ reasons, left wing 'dopers are just not going to vote for Romney in the next election? That’s…well, that’s shocking! :eek: I would have never guessed that, and I bet Romney is seriously disappointed that he won’t be getting left wing 'doper, or perhaps even broader left wing support in the coming election. ☹ [QUOTE=Jas09] Well, Warren Buffet (to name one detractor) gave $37 billion to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, so ol’ Mitt has some catching up to do. [/QUOTE] I’m guessing that, proportionally speaking, ol’ Mitt isn’t exactly in the same league as Buffet. I know, I know…they are all ‘rich’. But that doesn’t mean they all have the same amount. At a guess, if ol’ Mitt gave away $37 billion he’d be about $36 billion and some change in debt. And liberal 'dopers would STILL be saying how he wasn’t ‘morally’ fit to be president. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/29 "2012-01-24T14:42:12Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I’m glad we can finally get a liberal to come out and admit what this is really about- jealousy. They don’t care what the rate is, they just want to stick it to the rich, who they falsely perceive as not having done anything to earn their money. Really? So do you think the average liberal would be in favor of taking away half the wealth of the super rich and then burning it all in a ditch? If it’s just about punishing those who are successful… No liberal has an actual desire for sane tax policy, or to solve the deficit and debt in the way that’s most obvious, easiest, and does the least damage? It’s all because they’re crying that they don’t own a yacht? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/30 "2012-01-24T14:44:11Z")
Hanging this on Romney is silly. If I had that sort of income, I’d probably be doing the same thing (minus the $3 million donation to the cult). If you want to complain about how the super rich _generally_ pay less tax than they ought, and use Romney as an example, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/31 "2012-01-24T14:44:32Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I’m glad we can finally get a liberal to come out and admit what this is really about- jealousy. They don’t care what the rate is, they just want to stick it to the rich, who they falsely perceive as not having done anything to earn their money. I’m curious. What did Mitt Romney do to earn the $42 million in income he received over the last two years? He gave the money to somebody else and they used it to generate wealth. It’s not about jealousy, it’s really not. I’m comfortably in the top quintile on that chart too, and not at all upset at how much taxes I will pay (certainly a higher rate than Mitt). Some of us really do want to have a discussion about the most effective way to raise the revenues required to run the government. > [@](#): > > ETA: They also want to handwave [this chart](http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/figure2.png), which is really the important one when “fairness” is discussed. I agree. We should discuss if it is fair for 20% of the population to earn 60% of the income. Or for the bottom 20% to earn what appears to be about 4%. And, as you know, the wealth numbers are even more “unfair”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/32 "2012-01-24T14:44:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > As opposed to all of the Democrats that willingly pay more in taxes than they need to because it’s the right thing to do? See post #12. This issue isn’t whether people have to send in additional checks to the IRS out of the goodness of their hearts. That’s a ridiculous, juevenile talking point invented probably by Karl Rove which has nothing to do with the discussion whatsoever. You cannot possibly interpret my statement about needing to raise taxes instead of cut services as talking about how republicans need to donate more to the IRS than they’re legally required to do. It’s intellectually dishonest, and a non-sequitor at best. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/33 "2012-01-24T14:46:31Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > I don’t care if Romney’s 15% is going to dwarf my tax contributions for life, the point is that the rich have been seeing some pretty ridiculous gains as time has gone on (by no real efforts of their own, just favorable legislation) What, you think favorable legislation just writes _itself_? It takes _effort_! And… uh… _penmanship!_ ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/34 "2012-01-24T14:49:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > So, I’m guessing that for ‘moral’ reasons, left wing 'dopers are just not going to vote for Romney in the next election? That’s…well, that’s shocking! :eek: I would have never guessed that, and I bet Romney is seriously disappointed that he won’t be getting left wing 'doper, or perhaps even broader left wing support in the coming election. ☹ Mitt should be worried about getting right-wing votes in Florida right about now. This information will not help him there. And the GOP should worry about how this feeds directly into Obama’s re-election message in the fall. > [@](#): > > I’m guessing that, proportionally speaking, ol’ Mitt isn’t exactly in the same league as Buffet. I know, I know…they are all ‘rich’. But that doesn’t mean they all have the same amount. At a guess, if ol’ Mitt gave away $37 billion he’d be about $36 billion and some change in debt. Mitt gave away something like 10% or so of his income the last two years. Warren has given away about half of his wealth so far, and pledged to give away 99% of it before he dies. So you’re right, they aren’t in the same league. My point was merely to knock down the ad hominem that **Rune** posted - that Romney’s detractors aren’t as generous to charity as he is. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/35 "2012-01-24T14:51:11Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What makes you think 15% is lower than most people pay? Most households pay 0%. We’ve been over this many, many times. Looks like he’s in the [fourth quintile](http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/collections.cfm?collect=13). The guy makes more than 99.9% of the population and his tax percentage is 4th quintile? What sense does that make? He keeps more of the money he earns than 40% of the population. That 40% of the population isn’t rolling in money, they’re regular people trying to make ends meet, and out of the money they earn, the government takes MORE than they take from Romney. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/36 "2012-01-24T14:51:50Z")
I didn’t hear any **other** Pub up there saying Romney should’ve paid more than 15%. Perhaps it was enough to just leave it lying there. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/37 "2012-01-24T14:58:01Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What makes you think 15% is lower than most people pay? Most households pay 0%. We’ve been over this many, many times. Looks like he’s in the [fourth quintile](http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/collections.cfm?collect=13). > > I’m glad we can finally get a liberal to come out and admit what this is really about- jealousy. They don’t care what the rate is, they just want to stick it to the rich, who they falsely perceive as not having done anything to earn their money. > > ETA: They also want to handwave [this chart](http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/figure2.png), which is really the important one when “fairness” is discussed. Please do not put words in my mouth. When did my post imply anything about this being jealousy? It has nothing to do with that. It’s demonstrably true that the rich have had massive gains in recent years as a direct result of favorable policy. Despite having these hugely favorable policies under the justification of “job creation,” we’re not exactly swimming in jobs. My stance is that it’s just not sane or responsible to enact policies that shoulder massive burdens on people who can’t afford them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/38 "2012-01-24T15:02:29Z")
Moved to Elections from Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/39 "2012-01-24T15:03:22Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > They don’t care what the rate is, they just want to stick it to the rich, who they falsely perceive as not having done anything to earn their money. First, no I _don’t_ believe most rich people do anything to earn as much as they do, and that many do much more harm than good. And second, no I _don’t_ care about exact rates; what I care about is taking away the majority of their money and investing it back in the economy. And yes, I _do_ want to stick it to the rich, as punishment for all the harm they’ve done. I have no problem with class warfare, and neither do the rich; the problem with class warfare in this country is that it’s all about the rich pounding on everyone else, and everyone else collectively rolling around in ecstasy babbling “Hit me more! Harder! Harder!” > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Really? So do you think the average liberal would be in favor of taking away half the wealth of the super rich and then burning it all in a ditch? That seems to be a common attitude on the Right; that liberals just want to tax out of some weird hunger to tax for its own sake, then waste the money. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492/40 "2012-01-24T15:05:57Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > That’s not true. He feels the current system is unfair, and that he should be asked to pay even less. That’s not true, I don’t think. His plan is to keep the 15% rate, but not for people in his tax bracket. I’ll check for a cite, but I’m pretty certain that is the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-and-taxes-morally-unfit-to-be-president/610492.md?page=3)