# Romney strapped his dog on car roof for 12 hour journey **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821 "2007-06-28T20:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/1 "2007-06-28T20:59:18Z")
[Romney dogged by animal cruelty charge](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/06/romney_dogged_b.html) > [@](#): > > The white Chevy station wagon with the wood paneling was overstuffed with suitcases, supplies, and sons when Mitt Romney climbed behind the wheel to begin the annual 12-hour family trek from Boston to Ontario. > > … > > Before beginning the drive, Mitt Romney put Seamus, the family’s hulking Irish setter, in a dog carrier and attached it to the station wagon’s roof rack. He’d built a windshield for the carrier, to make the ride more comfortable for the dog. > > Then Romney put his boys on notice: He would be making predetermined stops for gas, and that was it. So does Mitt deserve the stick he is getting over a 25 year old story? Or does it reflect something about his values that is relevent today? Will it cost him votes outside the dog-loving community? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/2 "2007-06-28T21:07:15Z")
Well, I certainly wouldn’t applaud him for it. But it was a long time ago and not terribly relevant to his ability to serve as President. I can come up with lots of other reasons to never vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/3 "2007-06-28T21:09:01Z")
I’m finding it a bit difficult to believe that anyone would really care about this. No slight against you, Fear itself, but is this going to impact anyone’s opinion about Romney in any significant manner? Marc ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/4 "2007-06-28T21:09:30Z")
He didn’t strap his dog to a car roof, so your title is in error. This seems pretty much like what people do when they take their dogs on planes. I say this dog won’t hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/5 "2007-06-28T21:12:06Z")
I think is does reflect on his judgement, and is just another paper cut like his “lifelong love of hunting.” Not terrible, but another facet that fills in the mosaic of his character. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/6 "2007-06-28T21:23:31Z")
Is it really much different than the way they transport horses? Those are open air boxes towed behind vehicles instead of put on the top. If there’s a windscreen what’s the difference? What if the dog carrier was in the bed of a pick-up truck? That’s not any safer either but I don’t see anyone calling that animal cruelty. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/7 "2007-06-28T21:26:56Z")
Does anyone else think this sounds more like a Chevy Chase movie sub-plot? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/8 "2007-06-28T21:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] He didn’t strap his dog to a car roof, so your title is in error. [/quote] OK, he strapped the dog carrier onto the roof with the dog inside it. Whatever. > [@](#): > > This seems pretty much like what people do when they take their dogs on planes. I say this dog won’t hunt. Never seen a plane with pet carriers strapped to the outside of the plane. Can’t see that there’s a whole lot of similarity between a pet in a carrier inside a plane, and a pet in a carrier on the roof of the car as it’s driving along at 60mph. But maybe that’s just me. My question is, where did the Globe get this story from? The only people who were there were members of the Romney family. If this was an incident that Romney volunteered, thinking it would show his leadership style in a favorable manner, then he deserves to be ripped for it: that brings his bad judgment into the present. If it’s a story that one of his kids mentioned to the Globe reporter in an offhand moment, then not so much. Hopefully he’s no longer the sort of person who’d strap his dog in a carrier on the roof of his car for a 12-hour trip. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/9 "2007-06-28T21:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] Is it really much different than the way they transport horses? Those are open air boxes towed behind vehicles instead of put on the top. If there’s a windscreen what’s the difference? What if the dog carrier was in the bed of a pick-up truck? That’s not any safer either but I don’t see anyone calling that animal cruelty. [/QUOTE] Have you ever seen a horse trailer? Hardly open air, and very protective of the horses. Bad judgment on his part - a big crate would kill wind resistance, and the noise of the wind would make many dogs crazy, I don’t see why he couldn’t put the suitcases on the roof, and the dog in the car. But I’ve got plenty of better reasons not to vote for him, so this makes no difference. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/10 "2007-06-28T21:35:59Z")
[QUOTE=ASAKMOTSD] Does anyone else think this sounds more like a Chevy Chase movie sub-plot? [/QUOTE] That’s the first thing that went through my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/11 "2007-06-28T21:37:41Z")
A considerate man would have strapped his kid on the roof, and let the dog ride inside. This story might give me paws about voting for him, no question. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/12 "2007-06-28T21:38:37Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > He didn’t strap his dog to a car roof, so your title is in error. Huh? The thread title says that Romney “strapped his dog on car roof for 12 hour journey”. Which he did, so it’s not an error at all. Maybe you mean that the title might be misleading because it doesn’t mention that the dog in question was in a carrier? In any case, fond as I am of dogs, I’d have to have some definite evidence that the dog actually suffered from this experience before I got mad at Romney over it. IME, dogs quite enjoy feelin’ the breeze go by as they ride in cars, and will frequently stick their heads right out the window if they can. That doesn’t mean that Romney’s canine transportation system might not have been dangerous and unwise in terms of the dog’s safety. But so many loving pet owners do such dumb and unsafe things in terms of transporting their pets that it’s hard to chastise Romney in particular for it. (Full disclosure: the author of this post has in the past occasionally transported a caged canary strapped on the rear carrier of a bicycle. Chirrrrrrrrp! :)) I do have to wonder, though: if you’ve got suitcases **and** a dog carrier, why wouldn’t you just strap the suitcases on the roof and put the carrier in the back of the station wagon, instead of the other way around? Anyway. Did anybody read to the end of the OP’s article? :eek: > [@](#): > > But Romney’s treatment of Seamus is no match for what Bill Frist, the former Senate majority leader and one-time presidential candidate, did to cats. When Frist was in medical training in Boston in the 1970s, he used to go around to animal shelters, adopt cats, and promise to care for them as pets. Then he killed them in experiments. > > “It was a heinous and dishonest thing to do,” Frist wrote in an autobiography. “I was going a little crazy.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/13 "2007-06-28T21:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] OK, he strapped the dog carrier onto the roof with the dog inside it. Whatever. [/quote] Which is significantly different, especially since the article states that he put a windscreen in front. > [@](#): > > Never seen a plane with pet carriers strapped to the outside of the plane. Can’t see that there’s a whole lot of similarity between a pet in a carrier inside a plane, and a pet in a carrier on the roof of the car as it’s driving along at 60mph. But maybe that’s just me. With a windscreen in the front it’s no different than driving a car with the windows rolled down. The only “cruel” part, AFAICS, is confining the dog in the carrier, which is how the plane analogy works. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/14 "2007-06-28T21:43:00Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] This seems pretty much like what people do when they take their dogs on planes. I say this dog won’t hunt. [/QUOTE] OK, let’s examine the [rest of the story](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/romney/articles/part4_main/): > [@](#): > > As the oldest son, Tagg Romney commandeered the way-back of the wagon, keeping his eyes fixed out the rear window, where he glimpsed the first sign of trouble. ‘‘Dad!’’ he yelled. ‘‘Gross!’’ A brown liquid was dripping down the back window, payback from an Irish setter who’d been riding on the roof in the wind for hours. > > As the rest of the boys joined in the howls of disgust, Romney coolly pulled off the highway and into a service station. There, he borrowed a hose, washed down Seamus and the car, then hopped back onto the highway. It was a tiny preview of a trait he would grow famous for in business: emotion-free crisis management. So you think it is OK to hose down a dog, then force it to ride, soaking wet, on the roof of a car for hours? Does that happen on airplanes too? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/15 "2007-06-28T22:01:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > With a windscreen in the front it’s no different than driving a car with the windows rolled down. Sorry, but that’s absurd. I know I commented myself on how a lot of dogs enjoy feeling the airstream, but it’s silly to say that putting a dog carrior on a roof rack is **no different** from having the dog inside the car with the windows rolled down. It’s one thing to say that such an action isn’t actually cruel, as long as the dog is contented up there on the “top deck”, but quite another to say that it isn’t different from letting the dog ride inside. There’s not only the increased danger of accident with a strapped-on carrier, there’s also the lack of ability to keep an eye on the dog and make sure that it’s comfortable. And if Romney wasn’t stopping periodically to let the dog walk around a bit and do its business—which **Fear** ’s second story suggests he wasn’t, as a well-trained adult dog will not foul its own container unless it’s absolutely desperate for excretory relief—then he **was** being cruel to the animal, IMHO. > [@John Mace](#): > > The only “cruel” part, AFAICS, is confining the dog in the carrier, which is how the plane analogy works. Actually, it’s much safer for pets to travel in carriers, even inside the car. The really cruel thing is to leave a pet loose in the car to become a flying projectile if you have to make an emergency stop. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/16 "2007-06-28T22:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] OK, let’s examine the [rest of the story](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/romney/articles/part4_main/):So you think it is OK to hose down a dog, then force it to ride, soaking wet, on the roof of a car for hours? Does that happen on airplanes too? [/QUOTE] :mad: I take back my lack of concern. When we take our dog to Guide Dogs, about 90 miles away, we always let her relieve before and after the trip. He was so concerned about time that he couldn’t stop in a rest area to let the dog go? I wonder if they even bothered at gas stations. He’s a piece of scum. And yes, the dog should be in a carrier. If you crate train dogs, they are very happy to go into their carrier, especially if you put a familiar blanket in. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/17 "2007-06-28T22:26:33Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Which is significantly different, especially since the article states that he put a windscreen in front. [/quote] Excuse me, but big whoop. [quoter] With a windscreen in the front it’s no different than driving a car with the windows rolled down. The only “cruel” part, AFAICS, is confining the dog in the carrier, which is how the plane analogy works. [/QUOTE] The analogy doesn’t work very well at all if a strap works its way loose. Plenty of opportunity for that on a 12 hour trip with minimal stops to check the straps. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/18 "2007-06-28T22:45:02Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Have you ever seen a horse trailer? Hardly open air, and very protective of the horses. [/QUOTE] The old ones weren’t. The new ones have the streamlined cowling only to make them less wind-resistant. Depending on the weather, the dog was probably perfectly comfortable. And the comparison with dogs in pickups is apt – I haul my hound to the vet 100 miles away in a pickup with a rack on the back. She won’t ride inside. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/19 "2007-06-28T23:15:12Z")
I’m more appalled that he named his kid Tagg…what’s the rest of 'em named? We got daddy Mitt, Tagg…who else, Basse, Batt, Ball, Moundd? Seriously, I wouldn’t do what he did, but I’m uncertain if he was really being cruel or not. Like Elendil’s Heir said, there are plenty of reasons not to vote for him besides that. No worries, though…even conservatives don’t trust him as far as they could throw a shit-stained station wagon, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821/20 "2007-06-28T23:25:59Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] Huh? The thread title says that Romney “strapped his dog on car roof for 12 hour journey”. Which he did, so it’s not an error at all. Maybe you mean that the title might be misleading because it doesn’t mention that the dog in question was in a carrier? [/QUOTE] He didn’t “strap his dog” anywhere. > [@](#): > > Sorry, but that’s absurd. I know I commented myself on how a lot of dogs enjoy feeling the airstream, but it’s silly to say that putting a dog carrior on a roof rack is no different from having the dog inside the car with the windows rolled down. In the context of the post I was responding to it’s a valid statement. I think the only thing absurd here is that we’re actually debating this. 🙂 I guess if someone needs an excuse not to vote for a Mormon, they could use this. I’d really like to vote for Romney, but that whole dog on the roof thing… wouldn’t be prudent. My Outrage Meter is at zero on this. But I probably wouldn’t vote for Romney unless he were running against Dennis Kucinich. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-strapped-his-dog-on-car-roof-for-12-hour-journey/409821.md?page=2)