# Romney the Outsourcer/Offshorer and Corporate raider meme **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 9, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708 "2012-07-09T16:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/41 "2012-07-09T23:21:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I guess I’m not getting how this is bullshit. I’m also not clear how this is a meme. Me too. Did Bain Capital not ever close down a company and lay people off? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/42 "2012-07-09T23:28:31Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > You may as well say it’s one of the bigger weaknesses of human beings. Emotions overrule logic in almost all circumstances. We can’t help it, so we may as well learn to live with it. True, but humans are highly heterogeneous. Some humans’ emotions will run counter to reality, some humans emotions will not, and they will accordingly be better or worse of for it. Governments on the other hand are far fewer, far less heterogeneous, and missteps affect their constituents more or less equally, regardless of whether their individual behaviour merits it or not. Anyway. This time I really am going. Really 🙂 p.s not running away from the conversation though. New thread is called for, is all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/43 "2012-07-09T23:38:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That’s right, keep talking about the logic involved, and convince everyone that shutting down manufacturing is a good thing and preserves jobs. That will go over really well with the voting public. Especially when Obama’s team is showing the 56 year old guy who lost his job and his hope along with it. > > Romney’s one hope in this election was to use the relatively high unemployment to his advantage. It’s HIS team that should be playing to emotions, and showing sad, pathetic unemployed people in his ads. They can’t do that though, because of Romney’s association with a company that bought out other companies and eliminated positions. > > You can’t beat emotions with logic. This is especially true if your candidate is already perceived as a cold, unemotional fish who cannot connect with the common person. There are two discussions going on here. One is the politics, and one is the economics. I’ve already agreed that Obama is playing good politics. That was not what the post you quoted was about, though. Bashing outsourcing is popular, and it probably works. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/44 "2012-07-09T23:43:15Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Why should an average American vote for someone who thinks it is a good idea to take away their job and give it to someone who isn’t an American? > > Hey, don’t get irritated…but your OP makes it sound like it is for that recently unemployed persons good. You need to explain to him that him being laid off and an Indian doing his job is a GOOD thing for him. > > If Romney cannot do that then maybe he shouldn’t be president. I, personally, look forward to hearing how he explains it. > > He won’t and that will hurt him. > > I don’t think someone that made his money outsourcing even ONE job overseas and/or has savings accounts overseas should be president. If you are president you should be PRO America. You should be The U.S’s main cheerleader. You can’t do that if you actively hurt Amercia by laying off workers and not paying taxes on your income by hiding it. That behavior is more toward the treasonous side than the pro-U.S. side. How about if by outsourcing some jobs for a particular company one is able to keep the company operating and saving jobs here in the U.S.? Would the person who did that be PRO America? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/45 "2012-07-09T23:45:45Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Exactly right **Duck**. See, I agree with **John** that, in the aggregate, outsourcing is a net good for both America and the world. But I can’t blame an individual voter who lost his job for being pissed and not wanting to vote for the political embodiment of the boss that fired him. > > It’s certainly good politics for Obama to play that up, while it’s good policy for him to continue to work on foreign trade deals like the ones he has signed. Sure, play to the dumbasses. There’s nothing inherently wrong with outsourcing. You might as well say that buying a back-ho is bad because, well, without it, you’d need eight guys to dig that foundation, not just the one operator. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/46 "2012-07-09T23:54:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sure, play to the dumbasses. There’s nothing inherently wrong with outsourcing. You might as well say that buying a back-ho is bad because, well, without it, you’d need eight guys to dig that foundation, not just the one operator. What’s a back-ho? The $20 kind? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/47 "2012-07-09T23:55:02Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Fine, hire those guys away from their current jobs to come work for you. U.S. companies poach executives from one another all the time. You could offer an Indian CEO enough to jump ship and probably still save a fortune compared to what you’re paying your American CEO. And have the CEO’s salary be taxed by INdia and spent in the Indian economy and not our own? Brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/48 "2012-07-09T23:56:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What’s a back-ho? The $20 kind? :). Here: e ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/49 "2012-07-09T23:58:04Z")
To return to the original question: Yes, it will be one of the things that kills the Romney campaign. The Obama campaign is systematically undermining all of Romney’s potential lines of attack. Romney can’t talk about his experience as governor without bringing up uncomfortable comparisons with Obamacare. He can’t do a good job of criticizing Obamacare for the same reason. He can’t talk about unemployment now that’s got a reputation as a job destroyer. He can’t talk about his competence as a business leader without reminding people of every jerk boss they ever worked for. He can’t talk about patriotism without people remembering that he has Swiss bank accounts and overseas investments. He can’t talk about being a tough commander in chief without reminding everyone who got Bin Laden. The campaign hasn’t even gotten started in earnest and Obama already has Romney almost completely defanged. If the GOP hadn’t spent the last four years sandbagging the economy, we’d be looking at 1984-sized blow-out. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/50 "2012-07-10T00:04:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And have the CEO’s salary be taxed by INdia and spent in the Indian economy and not our own? Brilliant! You could say the same thing about every job that gets offshored to another country; it’s not just an argument against offshoring executive jobs. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/51 "2012-07-10T00:29:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And have the CEO’s salary be taxed by INdia and spent in the Indian economy and not our own? Brilliant! But…um…what about… ahhh nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/52 "2012-07-10T00:35:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about if by outsourcing some jobs for a particular company one is able to keep the company operating and saving jobs here in the U.S.? Would the person who did that be PRO America? No. If the guy can’t think of a way to save those jobs for America how the hell is he going to run a country? This is why maybe businessmen shouldn’t be in politics…much like people think teachers shouldn’t be on school boards. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/53 "2012-07-10T00:43:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’ve seen no such evidence, to be honest. You don’t have to provide it either, since it’s not really the main thrust of this thread. If folks want to believe that Mitt actually is all those things (i.e. ‘Outsourcer/Offshorer and Corporate Raider’), well, to me that simply shows how effective this meme is. Is calling this a ‘meme’ your cute way of suggesting that Romney is none of those things without actually coming out and saying it? Sort of how like talk-show radio hosts call their bloviation ‘satire’ so they don’t have to defend it as a fact? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/54 "2012-07-10T04:29:02Z")
Didn’t read the article linked in the op, ehe? That’s ok man…no one else did either. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![The\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@The\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/55 "2012-07-10T04:54:03Z")
Foolish is the man who falls for the hypes. Romney does plan to increase the job market by reducing regulations on businesses, and possibly lowering the minimum wage. But rest assured jobs will increase. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/56 "2012-07-10T05:12:27Z")
> [@The\_Prophet](#): > > Foolish is the man who falls for the hypes. > Romney does plan to increase the job market by reducing regulations on businesses, and possibly lowering the minimum wage. But rest assured jobs will increase. Yes, of course they will. Perhaps there will be a lot of jobs cleaning up the skittles that fall out of the behinds of all the free ponies that everyone will be getting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/57 "2012-07-10T05:28:32Z")
> [@The\_Prophet](#): > > Foolish is the man who falls for the hypes. > Romney does plan to increase the job market by reducing regulations on businesses, and possibly lowering the minimum wage. But rest assured jobs will increase. The whole idea of regulation and job creation is certainly a complicated topic, but there is no way that Romney either will or can reduce the minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/58 "2012-07-10T10:21:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Didn’t read the article linked in the op, ehe? That’s ok man…no one else did either. 😉 > > -XT Did you? Perhaps you could summarize the main points that led you to share it with us in support of your argument that this is a bs meme. What I noticed is that they are relying on the Romney camps say so about when he stepped down at Bain. This has been called into question via documnets relating to the medical waste disposal story. FactChsck poses the argument that he wouldn’t lie about this. So, I find your link dubious. Is that all you’ve got? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/59 "2012-07-10T10:40:13Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Didn’t read the article linked in the op, ehe? That’s ok man…no one else did either. 😉 The article’s BS in a number of ways. For one, I’ll point out that part of the article depended on the lame assertion that Romney was not a “corporate raider” according to the strict definition, that his takeovers were not hostile to management (let’s not mention the workers). For another, it depends on the fact that Romney’s tenure at Bain was not concurrent with some of these practices (let’s not mention that he’s aware of these practices and endorses them by simply actively associating with Bain). No, let’s play cute word games and call it a ‘meme’, that way we don’t have to talk about the substance. By the way, you may want to look into what a meme really is. Contrast with ‘theme’. If you’re tempted to respond by posting a dictionary definition complete with diacritical marks, Just. Don’t. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708/60 "2012-07-10T11:55:15Z")
I think we have to ask ourselves if we want to engage in a race to the bottom. Sure, you can build widgets cheaper if you build them overseas. But does that mean that every domestic widget-maker has to lose his job? Look at that steel company that Bain took over. It was making a profit, people had good paying jobs, they spent their wages locally and propped up a lot of local businesses. But a small profit for the owners is not good enough, they had to gut the company, pillage the assets, steal the pension fund, and throw everybody out of work. Why does profit have to be maximized? Why can’t a corporate CEO say “we’re making money and providing jobs. Let’s keep the jobs here and keep the profit margins that we have.” Yes, we like to buy cheap stuff. Just like we’ll flock to WalMart instead of patronizing that corner store that they put out of business. Do we want a president who wants to turn the US into India and eliminate the middle class? Do we want a guy who stole from the pensions of the little guy in order to build himself a car elevator? Just because you call something a “meme” doesn’t mean it isn’t true. A lot of people lost their jobs and their pensions because of Bain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-the-outsourcer-offshorer-and-corporate-raider-meme/627708.md?page=4)