# Romney To Post "Summary" Of His Taxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 21, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415 "2012-09-21T18:24:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/41 "2012-09-21T22:28:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for why he didn’t declare all his charitable deductions - my guess is because his accountants are assuming that there will be a big tax hike on the rich next year, so they’re carrying forward some of his deductions to apply against next year’s income. You know, this is probably a wise thing for them to do. Even his accountants know that Romney is toast, and will never see the Whitehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/42 "2012-09-21T22:32:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You know, this is probably a wise thing for them to do. Even his accountants know that Romney is toast, and will never see the Whitehouse. Um, he’d have investment income regardless of whether or not he becomes President. It just goes into a blind trust. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/43 "2012-09-21T22:33:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for why he didn’t declare all his charitable deductions - my guess is because his accountants are assuming that there will be a big tax hike on the rich next year, so they’re carrying forward some of his deductions to apply against next year’s income. But then again, how come Brad Malt, head of Mitt’s blind trust had another reason: > [@](#): > > They could have claimed a higher charitable deduction, Malt said, but the couple “limited their deductions of charitable contributions to conform to the governor’s statement in August, based on the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 per cent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years.” So it was done only for political reasons. I tend to believe Brad malt, rather than you **Sam**. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/44 "2012-09-21T22:34:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Um, he’d have investment income regardless of whether or not he becomes President. It just goes into a blind trust. It was a joke son. A joke. As in: If they’re worried about a big tax hike for rich folks, it must mean that they’re pretty sure that Obama will re-take the Whitehouse, since if Romney got in, there would be no worries about a big tax hike for rich folks, now would there? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/45 "2012-09-21T22:35:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Really, the hay you guys are trying to make out of this is incredible. Despite having no evidence that Romney has ever done anything illegal with his taxes, and despite having two full returns to pour over and a certified summary of his previous taxes from a respected firm, all you can see is mysteries, malfeasance, and cockamamie theories for rather straightforward tax strategy. The issue is not that he had done anything illegal. The issue is that he’s hypocritical with regards to him saying taxes are too high on the wealthy. I totally believe his returns are 100% in line with the IRS guidelines. The outrage comes from the fact that he’s the one saying the taxes are too much of a burden on the rich and he wants to reduce them, yet he won’t show his tax returns to demonstrate how that burden is affecting him. The outrage come from normal people thinking the rich are able to exploit loopholes to reduce their tax burden. The reality is that the rich can do things like take $10 million in profits from stocks and invest it in a “Coconut Farm” on Hawaii, which consists of a mansion on a cliff overlooking the ocean with a few coconut trees in the back. They get a fancy house and don’t have to pay taxes on the $10 million. Totally legal, and totally slimy. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/46 "2012-09-21T22:35:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Um, he’d have investment income regardless of whether or not he becomes President. It just goes into a blind trust. > [@](#): > > “The blind trust is an age old ruse, if you will, which is to say you can always tell the blind trust what it can and cannot do. You give the blind trust rules.” - Mitt Romney, 1994 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/47 "2012-09-21T22:37:53Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > S > > You should go ask Romney. Though I should say that maybe he’s not as greedy and heartless as some have said. Or perhaps he (like many of his faith) are committed to giving a significant amount of money to the Mormon Church. I think that it’s not a terrific surprise that Romney gives a lot to the Mormon Church. In fact, it would be pretty shocking if he did not. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/48 "2012-09-21T22:46:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What, you’re saying that Romney’s charitable deductions shouldn’t count? You realize that charitable deductions are tax-free for a reason, right? It’s because we like to encourage philanthropy. What do you mean, charitable contributions should “count?” Count for what? You seem to be implying that charitable contributions are an offset for taxes, but you know full well they aren’t. They are an offset for income. > [@](#): > > And why are you assuming that if he didn’t make them that income would be taxed at the capital gains rate? Why wouldn’t it have been applied against the highest-tax income he had, which would be closer to 30%? What does that do to your assumed overall rate then? Because Romney’s website says, “In 2011, the Romneys paid $1,935,708 in taxes on $13,696,951 **in mostly investment income.** ” In taking a five-second look at the actual returns, it appears that half of his income is from interest and half from capital gains. That means that the taxes that would have been due on that $4 million in contributions would have been closer to $1 million rather than $600,000. Which means that absent the deductions, he would have paid $2.9 million in taxes on $13.7 million in income, or a 17% rate. > [@](#): > > As for why he didn’t declare all his charitable deductions - my guess is because his accountants are assuming that there will be a big tax hike on the rich next year, so they’re carrying forward some of his deductions to apply against next year’s income. It is stated on his website that he didn’t take all the deductions so that he would pay at least 13% of his income in taxes. > [@](#): > > Again, you do realize that Romney has hired PriceWaterhouseCoopers to do his taxes, right? I’m not claiming he’s a tax cheat. I’m saying it is unfair that millionaires pay less in taxes than their secretaries. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/49 "2012-09-21T22:51:39Z")
I thought this would be a win for Romney until I saw the part about how he didn’t take a full deduction “so he would pay at least 13%”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/50 "2012-09-21T22:57:51Z")
What, you’re saying the public doesn’t love guys who keep their promises only by technicalities? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/51 "2012-09-21T22:58:04Z")
I’ll be willing to bet that Mitt Romney paid more in federal income tax last year than every poster in this thread COMBINED. Yet he still didn’t pay his “fair share.” Yes, I know about the progressive tax system, but we should be truthful about the words. We should “soak more out of him” instead of bitching about how “little” he pays. Do we think that about any other aspect of society? I’ll bet Mitt could stimulate the local economy if he paid $3490 for a Big Mac instead of $3.49 like I pay. And if he “only” pays $2k for a Big Mac, he would be “robbing” McDonalds according to some posters, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/52 "2012-09-21T22:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **OMG** : > > As it stands, Romney pays a higher effective tax rate-- which would be higher if not for his charitable contributions-- than about 80% of Americans. Pretty hard to argue the rich don’t pay their fair dues. Please define your terms, here. Do you mean all federal taxes combined, or only income tax? Either way, you’re wrong. If you mean only income taxes, then Romney only paid less than a percent of his income that way, since almost all of his income is capital gains. And if you’re lumping in all forms of federal tax, then the payroll tax that almost everyone pays already puts them ahead of Romney’s typical rate of 13%. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/53 "2012-09-21T23:00:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Yes, I know about the progressive tax system So you’re aware the rest of this post was composed of strawmanning and empty words? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/54 "2012-09-21T23:01:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Or perhaps he (like many of his faith) are committed to giving a significant amount of money to the Mormon Church. I think that it’s not a terrific surprise that Romney gives a lot to the Mormon Church. In fact, it would be pretty shocking if he did not. So charitable contributions only count if they go to an organization you deem acceptable? > [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not claiming he’s a tax cheat. I’m saying it is unfair that millionaires pay less in taxes than their secretaries. Well, unless their secretaries make more than the millionaires who employ them, this is highly unlikely. I take it you mean effective individual tax rate? If so, [this is untrue](http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456). The following chart is only up to 2007, so I don’t know what the effective tax rate is now for the highest quintile, but then it was 14.4%, about where Romney is paying. I’m not so sure how much a secretary makes, but the effective individual tax rate for one would be somewhere between 3.3% and 6.2%. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/55 "2012-09-21T23:03:31Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’ll be willing to bet that Mitt Romney paid more in federal income tax last year than every poster in this thread COMBINED. Yet he still didn’t pay his “fair share.” > > Yes, I know about the progressive tax system, but we should be truthful about the words. We should “soak more out of him” instead of bitching about how “little” he pays. > > Do we think that about any other aspect of society? I’ll bet Mitt could stimulate the local economy if he paid $3490 for a Big Mac instead of $3.49 like I pay. And if he “only” pays $2k for a Big Mac, he would be “robbing” McDonalds according to some posters, I’m sure. This is absurd. It doesn’t cost McDonald’s any more to make Mitt a Big Mac than it does to make one for Joe Sixpack. However, it costs local, state and federal governments much more to protect and otherwise provide for him. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/56 "2012-09-21T23:06:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is absurd. It doesn’t cost McDonald’s any more to make Mitt a Big Mac than it does to make one for Joe Sixpack. However, it costs local, state and federal governments much more to protect and otherwise provide for him. WTF??? Mitt, who pays the feds $2 million per year is more of a burden on the government than, let’s say, a prisoner? The cost of his “protection” (I’m assuming in the form of national defense) is the same as it is for you and I. They don’t “provide” for him in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/57 "2012-09-21T23:07:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought this would be a win for Romney until I saw the part about how he didn’t take a full deduction “so he would pay at least 13%”. If Romney thought it was going to be a win, it wouldn’t have been released on a Friday afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/58 "2012-09-21T23:08:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Or, you know, he’s smart enough to not play along with the Democrats’ obvious fishing expedition. He’s providing the absolute minimum information required to show that he paid a reasonable share of tax, and that’s it. “Reasonable share of tax”? Yeah, see, this whole kerfuffle, as you call it, is in large part due to his definition of “reasonable” being at odds with many people’s. Some people ask, “Hey, why’s Mitt paying a lower tax rate than construction workers and receptionists?” to which he responds, smugly, “Hey, it’s all legal, folks.” That’s fine, but doesn’t really answer the question or address the real issue. His adamant refusal to pony up his tax records has made some question whether or not he’s hiding anything illegal, but let’s ignore that and go along with the premise that he’s done nothing legally wrong. So he now, at long last, after being painted as a rich bitch using millionaire tax hocus pocus to pay less than working class people, after asking to see years’ worth of records for possible VP choices, releases his own tax records, except he doesn’t. He just has his arsenal of attorneys reiterate the same damn thing: “Hey guys, I didn’t break any laws.” Yeah, we get it, asshat. This “revelation” really hasn’t done anything at all. We’re exactly where we were six months ago. What was even the point of this? If anything, it just draws more attention to his refusal to show people what he paid. Can’t see how that helps him. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/59 "2012-09-21T23:08:28Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > So charitable contributions only count if they go to an organization you deem acceptable? I made no comment on whether or not the Mormon Church is acceptable or not, nor did I imply this in any way. I will thank you not to put words in my mouth. It is rude and offensive. On another note: Now that we know that in 2011, Romney paid more taxes than were required, does Romney himself think that he is still qualified to be president? Does Romney still believe that American voters expect candidates to pay “only what the tax code requires.”? Why has he changed his stance since late July’s talk with ABC News? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/60 "2012-09-21T23:09:05Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I take it you mean effective individual tax rate? If so, [this is untrue](http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456). The following chart is only up to 2007, so I don’t know what the effective tax rate is now for the highest quintile, but then it was 14.4%, about where Romney is paying. I’m not so sure how much a secretary makes, but the effective individual tax rate for one would be somewhere between 3.3% and 6.2%. The figures being quoted by the Romney campaign are his overall rate, not individual income tax rate. See [here](http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/note-trustee-brad-malt). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=4)