# Romney To Post "Summary" Of His Taxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 21, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415 "2012-09-21T18:24:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/81 "2012-09-22T15:05:30Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > So, we learn a few things here. > > First, we learn than Romney had to make an active decision to claim fewer deductions in order to make sure that his earlier statements about his tax payments remained true. Had he claimed what he was legally entitled to claim, he would have rendered inaccurate his earlier statements about his tax payments. But in doing this, he directly contradicted his statement not paying more than he owed. This, to me, is the most bothersome aspect of the whole tax issue wrt Romney. I don’t begrudge him taking advantage of the tax code-- I do it, too. I take every deduction I can. But Jesus F’ing Christ… he blatantly manipulated his taxes so it wouldn’t look like he wasn’t paying “too low” a rate. And he even tells us he did it. It’s mind boggling. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/82 "2012-09-22T15:11:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As for why he didn’t declare all his charitable deductions - my guess is because his accountants are assuming that there will be a big tax hike on the rich next year, so they’re carrying forward some of his deductions to apply against next year’s income. There is no need to “guess” here, **Sam**. His web site tells us exactly why he did it-- so that his effective tax rate wouldn’t fall below 13%. There is no mystery to solve. It’s all about appearances. ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/83 "2012-09-22T15:31:09Z")
Romney paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes last year. I don’t understand why people complain, the man follows the rules and pays his taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/84 "2012-09-22T15:32:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The controversy is the fact that, with the way the law is set up right now, it’s possible for a gazillionaire to legally pay a lower effective tax rate than someone struggling to make ends meet. And the fact that the Republican party wants to skew the law even further in favor of the gazillionaires. If Romney were just another business owner, at the mercy of the vagaries of the law, nobody would care. But he’s not just at the mercy of the vagaries of the law: He’s striving to become the single most powerful person in the country at setting the law. And that makes it very relevant. I agree that his stance on taxes is relevant. If he is legally using the tax code, why are his returns relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/85 "2012-09-22T15:39:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well, you’ll have to ask Romney why he didn’t take advantage of every legal tax minimization strategy for this years taxes. Oh wait, his accountant says why: > So he did that purely out of political expediency. > > No reasonable person has ever though that Romney was cheating on his taxes. Folks with specialized tax lawyers do not cheat on their taxes. > What most thought (and still think) is that Romney has taken advantage of tax avoidance loopholes that are only available to the very, very rich. He does not want the conversation to move in the direction of “what the hell are these loopholes that enable someone with a very large income to pay a much smaller percentage in taxes compared to a regular working family”??? > > You see, if the conversation moves in that direction, a whole lot of tax loopholes for the rich are going to be put under the microscope. And Romney’s backers do not want that. This is JMO, but IMO, there are no such things as loopholes. There is the tax code. Yes it is large and complex but it is what it is. I’m not eligible for the Earned Income Credit because I make too much. Does that make it a loophole for those with a lower income? I’ve never heard it referred to as such. It’s simply part of the tax code. Saying that the rich use loopholes poisons the well IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/86 "2012-09-22T15:43:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is no need to “guess” here, **Sam**. His web site tells us exactly why he did it-- so that his effective tax rate wouldn’t fall below 13%. There is no mystery to solve. It’s all about appearances. Wait, he paid 13% because he said that he’d pay at least 13% right? ISTM that he’s just standing by what he said. I can’t imagine the uproar that would have occurred if he’d paid less and broken his word. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/87 "2012-09-22T15:51:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’ve seen a lot of people voice suspicions, but almost nobody flat-out claiming that Romney’s violated any tax laws. The controversy is that he claims the tax burden on the wealthy is too much, while at the same time paying half or less the tax rate as the rest of us. > > He’s also claiming that he can lower taxes on everyone and still balance the budget, which may be technically possibly but only by eliminating tax breaks on everything from mortgage interest to charitable donations – which would result in a net tax increase for millions of people. But he doesn’t acknowledge this, in fact he refuses to specify how he will get from here to there. But we know what his tax rate is, don’t we? We may not like it but is seems highly unlikely that PricewaterhouseCoopers would put their name on something that listed the incorrect rate. So assuming that we know the rate, why will the returns help? Honestly, the whole kerfuffle is beginning to sound like a left-wing “birther” issue. And before anyone accuses me of being a Freeper, I’m not. I’m a Libertarian that is voting for President Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/88 "2012-09-22T15:51:52Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Wait, he paid 13% because he said that he’d pay at least 13% right? ISTM that he’s just standing by what he said. I can’t imagine the uproar that would have occurred if he’d paid less and broken his word. [Yeah, well, he also said in the past that if he paid more taxes than are legally due](http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=17291504&sid=77), he wouldn’t be qualified to be president. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/89 "2012-09-22T15:55:41Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > [Yeah, well, he also said in the past that if he paid more taxes than are legally due](http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=17291504&sid=77), he wouldn’t be qualified to be president. And I would agree with that. I think this is what people should be crowing about, not the release of his returns. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/90 "2012-09-22T15:56:57Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > Romney paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes last year. > > I don’t understand why people complain, the man follows the rules and pays his taxes. Because taxes are paid on a percentage. So the percentage is relevant, not the specific absolute dollar amount. You should look into how that works and maybe you’ll answer your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/91 "2012-09-22T16:01:32Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > But we know what his tax rate is, don’t we? We may not like it but is seems highly unlikely that PricewaterhouseCoopers would put their name on something that listed the incorrect rate. So assuming that we know the rate, why will the returns help? Honestly, the whole kerfuffle is beginning to sound like a left-wing “birther” issue. I don’t understand this comment at all. The suspicions are that he’s paying a WAY lower tax rate than almost everyone else. Releasing the returns could confirm or debunk the suspicions. Also, AFAIK, we don’t yet know what exactly is going to be included in the “summaries” he releases. Price Waterhouse would sign off as long as the numbers released are genuine and add up right. But, for example, what if he simply releases a gross income total for those years combined, and a gross taxes paid for the same period? Then it’s possible that some years he might have paid 20%, some years 10%, some years 0%. He claims he was paying a pretty consistent amount every year. Please note that I am speculating on the kinds of criticisms that might arise, depending on what and how much detail is released in these summaries. ---
**Author:** ![moonshot925](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@moonshot925](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonshot925)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/92 "2012-09-22T16:07:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because taxes are paid on a percentage. You should look into how that works and maybe you’ll answer your own question. Romney’s $1.94 million is contributing much more to the federal government than Obama who paid $160,000 last year (20.5% effective rate). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/93 "2012-09-22T16:08:45Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Wait, he paid 13% because he said that he’d pay at least 13% right? ISTM that he’s just standing by what he said. I can’t imagine the uproar that would have occurred if he’d paid less and broken his word. But the debate, at least the big picture debate, is about the tax code itself. As you said earlier, the tax code is the tax code. And that tax code would have allowed Romney to pay less than 13%, had he not made the explicit decision to pay more taxes than he owes. The people who have been arguing that the rich should pay more have not been arguing that they should do so voluntarily (like Romney did on this occasion), but that the tax code should be changed to ensure that the rich _have_ to pay more. That isn’t changed by Romney’s decision not to claim all of his deductions. The fact that he chose not to claim them all, in order to keep his rate above a number that he had previously discussed, still doesn’t change the fact that he still _could_ have paid less. As i’ve already said, i never thought that Romney releasing his returns was a big deal, and i’ve argued elsewhere on this message board that seeing Romney’s returns was not necessary to an informed debate about tax policy. But i think that he has now done something that’s dumber than not releasing them at all: he has released them, and has admitted to voluntarily paying more tax than he actually owed for no other reason than political expediency. And he did this in direct contradiction of an earlier statement, where he said that voluntarily paying more than he owed would make him unqualified to be president. Whoever is managing Romney’s campaign should never get another job in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/94 "2012-09-22T16:39:09Z")
This is an interesting decision by Mr. Romney’s campaign. It reignites the entire issue of his tax returns and the inequality perceived by many between the very rich 1% and the rest of us schlubs. The timing is curious. Released on a Friday afternoon and likely lost in the weekend news about… who knows… umm… Snookie’s new baby, I guess. But, this is essential to remember. This is just a summary. It isn’t his tax returns. Details are everything. And it is very obvious to me that there are significant details in Mr. Romney’s tax returns that he really does not want everyone to know about. If there weren’t then he would have released them already. It is hard to find a rational rebuttal to that. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/95 "2012-09-22T16:52:07Z")
I don’t know if it’s been addressed a hundred times or not, or how it even works, but is it possible there are any contributions to unpopular 501c’s that would only show up on his taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/96 "2012-09-22T16:57:15Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Does anyone believe that Romney is cheating on his taxes? Speaking only for myself … I have to say the longer he twists and turns on this the more I’m starting to believe that he is cheating somehow. As I said in the other thread, Romney doesn’t have core principles. He’ll say anything, do for anything, and then take it back an hour later, all to match whatever it is suits him at the moment. So it’s really out of character for him to make a big hard line in the sand - and he chose as is one hard line issue, his tax return. Romney isn’t afraid about lying about political statements. He lies five times before he gets out of bed in the morning. He is clearly afraid of showing his returns. This notarized summary just proves the point. He could put the whole issue to bed in thirty seconds if he wanted to. Instead we get even more weaseling. If you’d ask me three months ago, I’d have said it was just Romney being a doofus. But the more he fights this, the more out of character this looks. I’m starting to think there’s something genuinely bad in there. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/97 "2012-09-22T16:59:44Z")
I posted earlier some of the potential smoking guns that would make Romney at least look bad. For example, Romney’s IRA from 15 years at Bain is worth between $21M - 102M based on approximately $450k in total contributions. And the $450k was much higher SEP-IRA than a standard IRA that most American’s have. At the $102M valuation, that works out to works out to a 227 times increase. Obviously, Mitt missed his calling in life and should have just run a hedge fund. Here’s a good analysis from Bloomberg: [Bloomberg - Are you a robot?](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/the-secret-behind-romney-s-magical-ira.html) The issue is lack of transparency. IMHO, I think that having the President and candidates being held to high standards should be non-negotiable. Tricky Dick should have tought this lesson. Ya, and second that “average tax rate” thing. My average tax rate over the past decade is more than double Romney’s, so ipso facto I’m twice as qualified to be President? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/98 "2012-09-22T17:15:08Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Can someone please summarize the “controversy” here? Does anyone believe that Romney is cheating on his taxes? If he isn’t, what’s the problem? I’m not rich but I do take advantage of every legal tax minimization strategy available to me. I’d expect President Obama to do so as well. Why shouldn’t Romney? He’s rich, he pays very little in taxes, wants to pay less. Not a popular stance when lots of people are struggling. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/99 "2012-09-22T17:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Lobohan** > Because taxes are paid on a percentage. You should look into how that works and maybe you’ll answer your own question. > [@moonshot925](#): > > Romney’s $1.94 million is contributing much more to the federal government than Obama who paid $160,000 last year (20.5% effective rate). Moonshot,since it appears that you don’t understand percentages, or feel that everyone should pay the exact same dollar amount in taxes rather than a percentage of earnings, it’s probably best if you just bow out, and stop embarrassing yourself further. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/100 "2012-09-22T17:59:48Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > If you’d ask me three months ago, I’d have said it was just Romney being a doofus. But the more he fights this, the more out of character this looks. I’m starting to think there’s something genuinely bad in there. I still think the “Genuinely bad” thing is the potential to expose some relatively obscure (but legal) loopholes and techniques for minimizing taxes that only the very wealthy are able to use. The very wealthy (Romney’s colleagues) do not want to open a national conversation about how to eliminate these loopholes and techniques. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=6)