# Romney To Post "Summary" Of His Taxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 21, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415 "2012-09-21T18:24:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/121 "2012-09-23T23:35:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I agree. This is the smoking gun. My IRA is doing pretty good, but if it had increased 20x I’d be in heaven. But 227? Even Madoff’s clients didn’t make that much before the bottom fell out. Has anyone on the Romney side even addressed this? > > I wonder if Obama isn’t keeping this for an October surprise. > > As for 2011, we all knew that it would look more or less okay since it would be structured for the election. I never expected the hacking to make it look as high as it was would be so obvious. But the returns from before he knew they would be released are the true indicator of what his tax strategy was. Ya seems like something Illegal is going on with the IRA business. I wouldn’t put anything past this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/122 "2012-09-23T23:39:05Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Ya seems like something Illegal is going on with the IRA business. I wouldn’t put anything past this guy. I would not go so far as to say blatantly illegal. Unorthodox might be a better descriptor. I’m sure that undervaluing contributions to your IRA is pretty much business as usual for the very high income folks like Romney. ETA: I’m sure his tax accountants and lawyers have a fig leaf for explaining why they were not very good at valuing the contributions, and gosh, isn’t it just so lucky that they went up that much in value. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/123 "2012-09-24T00:57:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would not go so far as to say blatantly illegal. Unorthodox might be a better descriptor. I’m sure that undervaluing contributions to your IRA is pretty much business as usual for the very high income folks like Romney. > > ETA: I’m sure his tax accountants and lawyers have a fig leaf for explaining why they were not very good at valuing the contributions, and gosh, isn’t it just so lucky that they went up that much in value. eh, that sounds illegal. All a prosecutor has to show is that it’s outside the realm of probably doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/124 "2012-09-24T01:47:43Z")
If be interested to know how his business interests might affect his ability to be President. What kind of foreign based assets does he hold? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/125 "2012-09-24T03:03:44Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > If be interested to know how his business interests might affect his ability to be President. What kind of foreign based assets does he hold? At least in theory, they’d be in a blind trust. Although it’s probably safe to assume that a Romney administration would be slow to declare war on the Cayman Islands. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/126 "2012-09-24T04:49:02Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Yes. Politicians do things that are politically expedient. This is not news. There will be no film at 11… . No, but tapes will be shown at 10 PM Houston time. Tuesday, since they were in LA tonight for the Emmys. Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert will have something to say… ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/127 "2012-09-24T12:28:16Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > That last part is the rational reason why he _should_ have released them months ago - no one would care and by now we’d have all forgotten about it. Instead he’s turned it into a great big hairy deal and it’s burning up news cycles for him - news cycles even his allies agree that he can’t afford to waste this close to the election. What is he gaining here by turning this into the Issue That Will Not Die? Fundamentally, I agree with you. If he was going to do anything, it should have been swift and decisive when the “issue” arose. On the other hand, there is something to be said for taking a principled stand and not giving in to unreasonable demands. I thought the same thing about the President’s birth certificate. He should have said STFU and left it at that. He wouldn’t have lost any votes over it just like Romney isn’t losing votes over this, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/128 "2012-09-24T12:30:38Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > No, but tapes will be shown at 10 PM Houston time. Tuesday, since they were in LA tonight for the Emmys. Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert will have something to say… I certainly hope that Stewart refers to Romney’s 1040 as the “long form”. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/129 "2012-09-24T17:48:54Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > You could consider it a $270,000 contribution to his campaign if he actually put it there. Is he allowed to spend money for political gain (e.g. buy political ads for himself) without limit? Is it OK as long as it isn’t given directly to the campaign? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/130 "2012-09-24T18:40:22Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > He should have said STFU and left it at that. You know I think this four-letter summary of his campaign’s substance is the most accurate and succinct characterization of the Romney doctrine I’ve seen yet . ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/131 "2012-09-24T19:26:03Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Is he allowed to spend money for political gain (e.g. buy political ads for himself) without limit? Is it OK as long as it isn’t given directly to the campaign? There is no limit a candidate can contribute to their own campaign. Generally any money a candidate spends on their own campaign is best channeled through the campaign. Mitt Romney buying airtime would cost the going rate, which is often many times greater then the minimum. Mitt Romney for president buying airtime costs the networks minimum price. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/132 "2012-09-24T21:26:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I agree. This is the smoking gun. My IRA is doing pretty good, but if it had increased 20x I’d be in heaven. But 227? Even Madoff’s clients didn’t make that much before the bottom fell out. Has anyone on the Romney side even addressed this? > > I wonder if Obama isn’t keeping this for an October surprise. > > As for 2011, we all knew that it would look more or less okay since it would be structured for the election. I never expected the hacking to make it look as high as it was would be so obvious. But the returns from before he knew they would be released are the true indicator of what his tax strategy was. > [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Ya seems like something Illegal is going on with the IRA business. I wouldn’t put anything past this guy. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would not go so far as to say blatantly illegal. Unorthodox might be a better descriptor. I’m sure that undervaluing contributions to your IRA is pretty much business as usual for the very high income folks like Romney. > > ETA: I’m sure his tax accountants and lawyers have a fig leaf for explaining why they were not very good at valuing the contributions, and gosh, isn’t it just so lucky that they went up that much in value. A common practice among executives is to put their at the money or out of the money stock options into a ROTH IRA and claim that they are virtually worthless because there is no intrinsic value and no readily acertainable market value. Its bullshit but some people will try anything. That concept would take a very attentive audience and 5 or 10 minutes to explain. Anything that complicated can be spun and repacked until the layman can’t tell which side is right, so it is probably politically irrelevant at this point. The real bombshell is the amnesty for having undeclared income in a foreign account. If Romney took advantage of this, it just looks so bad that you can’t really spin it very well, although I’m sure anyone running for office would try. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/133 "2012-09-24T22:23:43Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Fundamentally, I agree with you. If he was going to do anything, it should have been swift and decisive when the “issue” arose. On the other hand, there is something to be said for taking a principled stand and not giving in to unreasonable demands. I thought the same thing about the President’s birth certificate. He should have said STFU and left it at that. He wouldn’t have lost any votes over it just like Romney isn’t losing votes over this, IMO. So, what is exactly the higher principle that Romney is standing on here? It has generally been the custom (although it is not legally required) that candidates for President make quite complete financial disclosures. In Romney’s particular case, when his argument for being President rests largely on the claim that his work at Bain means he is a businessman and knows how the economy works, how to create jobs, how to manage finances, etc. from personal experience. In that case, wouldn’t it be reasonable for the public to know how his finances related to this and how he handled them? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/134 "2012-09-24T22:42:52Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > So, what is exactly the higher principle that Romney is standing on here? It has generally been the custom (although it is not legally required) that candidates for President make quite complete financial disclosures. In Romney’s particular case, when his argument for being President rests largely on the claim that his work at Bain means he is a businessman and knows how the economy works, how to create jobs, how to manage finances, etc. from personal experience. In that case, wouldn’t it be reasonable for the public to know how his finances related to this and how he handled them? Rather ironic when you consider it was his own father who started the practice of Presidential candidates releasing their tax returns (12 years). ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/135 "2012-09-24T23:47:00Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Rather ironic when you consider it was his own father who started the practice of Presidential candidates releasing their tax returns (12 years). Or rather ironic when you remember that when he was running for governor in 2002, he demanded that his opponent (Shannon O’Brien) release her _husband_’s tax returns, in addition to her own. As his campaign was saying at the time, “ **What is she hiding?** ” In the Romney world, someone refusing to release tax returns must be hiding something. A likely theory, IMHO, is that the Romney’s tax returns would show that they took advantage of the deal the Justice Department offered people in 2009, giving them amnesty for illegally hiding money overseas with UBS to avoid paying the taxes they owed. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/136 "2012-09-25T00:24:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A common practice among executives is to put their at the money or out of the money stock options into a ROTH IRA and claim that they are virtually worthless because there is no intrinsic value and no readily acertainable market value. > > Its bullshit but some people will try anything. > > That concept would take a very attentive audience and 5 or 10 minutes to explain. Anything that complicated can be spun and repacked until the layman can’t tell which side is right, so it is probably politically irrelevant at this point. I don’t know about that. How he did it might be complicated, but no one cares about that. That Mr. Average has $80K in his IRA and Mitt has tens of millions is a pretty simple concept, and that he either put in far more than allowed or lied about the value of what was put in is a simple concept also. The maximum he could put in over 10 years is $500K total. If he doubled it, being smart, it would be worth $1 million. It is worth $20 million. something is fishy. That’s all it takes. Now Mitt can try to justify it by appealing to obscure parts of the tax code - but I don’t think that would help much. BTW the Oped column cited said that it was common knowledge among the rich that the IRS never checked on the value of deposits, so this scam worked well. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/137 "2012-09-25T01:07:11Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > A likely theory, IMHO, is that the Romney’s tax returns would show that they took advantage of the deal the Justice Department offered people in 2009, giving them amnesty for illegally hiding money overseas with UBS to avoid paying the taxes they owed. Romney has been running for President for at least a decade if not his whole life, it is) an incredible amount of dumb to use off shore bank accounts and bring the money back during a tax holiday. If this is true, it speaks volumes about complete and utter incompetence. I mean, it’s not like he’s trying to get fuck you money. He’s got fuck you money and enough to spare for at least his close family ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/138 "2012-09-25T01:13:30Z")
It certainly has been a misstep in his campaign to not have been more forthright with his returns. This story has been a significant political albatross for Mr. Romney, and this ‘summary’ will not remove it from his neck. Not until another news cycle or two. By then, he will have said something else silly. I really do not think this man has run a good campaign and I do not believe he will be the next President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/139 "2012-09-25T02:56:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > A common practice among executives is to put their at the money or out of the money stock options into a ROTH IRA and claim that they are virtually worthless because there is no intrinsic value and no readily acertainable market value. I’m confused. I’ve been maxing my Roths, and the limits are pretty low. From $2K in 1998 to $6K now (if you’re over 50.) What am I missing here? Traditional IRAs also have similar limits. How do you put in $500K over 10 years in a traditional IRA? Unless we’re also talking about SEP-IRAs. In that case, yeah, $500K seems to be just about the upper limit, as you can have a SEP and a traditional or Roth. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/140 "2012-09-25T03:29:01Z")
pulykamell - here’s some reading for you: [Opinion | The Mysteries of Mitt Romney’s Financial Records - The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/opinion/the-mysteries-of-mitt-romneys-financial-records.html?_r=2) Romney was able to put in $30-50k/year. Even so, he should quit his day job and put Warren Buffet out of business as a fund manager. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=8)