# Romney To Post "Summary" Of His Taxes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 21, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415 "2012-09-21T18:24:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/161 "2012-09-26T01:34:42Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It’s not unreasonable to do it voluntarily. It’s unreasonable to assume nefarious activity because someone chooses not to. Not having to prove your innocence is another good principle to stand on. I would have more sympathy with this line of thinking if the Romney campaign hadn’t used this tactic you decry (insinuating that there is something to hide) when their opponent in the 2002 Senate race refused to release her husband’s tax returns. Or maybe they had good reason to insinuate that, seeing as how they know a lot more about campaigning and releasing tax returns than I do. They might have had good foundation for their suspicions at the time. I should perhaps abide by their judgement. In this case, seeing that Mr. Romney thinks the adverse press he is receiving on the issue is not as bad as releasing his tax forms, I am still of the opinion that there is something bordering on illegal that he is hiding in there. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/162 "2012-09-26T01:36:23Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Was it unreasonable when he demanded that his opponent’s \*husband \*release his taxes? Is this a trick question? Of course it was. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/163 "2012-09-26T01:56:29Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Do you honestly believe that if he released his returns that undecided voters would suddenly decide to vote for him? Obviously not, he wouldn’t be so desperately trying to avoid releasing them if there was no damaging information there. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/164 "2012-09-26T02:03:08Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > The principle of not giving in to unreasonable demands. That’s sort of a vague tautological principle. What is unreasonable about such demands? I’ve given you reasons why I think it is not at all unreasonable. You have seen that Romney didn’t seem to think it was unreasonable to demand more from an opponent in a previous campaign! There is no evidence whatsoever to support your hypothesis that he is making some sort of principled stand and every reason to believe he is doing what he thinks is in his own narrow self-interest despite higher principles that would suggest doing the opposite. And, the fact that he believes it is in his self-interest despite all the flack he is taking strongly suggests that he must be hiding something pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/165 "2012-09-26T02:49:05Z")
Here’s what people suspect that Romney may be hiding by refusing to release details of his prior tax returns. Note, they suspect that this is why he’s not releasing them. Nobody is sure, and there is no proof Here they are from least to most likely: 1. Romney took advantage of the 2009 [Voluntary Compliance Program for Unreported Income from Offshore Accounts](http://www.vernonjacobs.com/voluntary-compliance.html) I believe it’s known that he had accounts in Swiss banks, and we also know that this [came about in 2009 because](http://www.northumberlandtoday.com/2012/09/11/104m-award-for-whistleblower-in-swiss-bank-ubs-tax-case) > [@](#): > > Swiss bank UBS in 2009 entered into a deferred prosecution agreement and paid $780 million in fines, penalties, interest and restitution to settle charges that it helped 17,000 U.S. clients hide $20 billion. U.S. authorities are still investigating other Swiss banks. So there were 17,000 US clients that hid $20 Billion. It is not crazy to suggest that Romney may have been among these 17,000, and then “came clean” to avoid criminal prosecution. If true, this would lead to the total destruction of his political career. 1. Romney has an IRA, just like many Americans. Not many Americans have IRA’s valued at [21 to 102 million dollars](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2012/08/11/mitt_romneys_ira_is_unlikely_centerpiece_of_wealth_and_tax_avoidance/) though. This would seem to be pretty hard to do, even with a high-contribution SEP-IRA (30K - 50K annual limits). There are a [few theories](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/the-secret-behind-romney-s-magical-ira.html) Most likely is that > [@](#): > > perfectly legally – Romney contributed to his IRA using the low-basis, low-value stock he received as a partner at Bain Capital in the various buyouts the firm did while Romney was there. How would this technique look to your average voter? 3. Romney may simply have paid a Federal Tax rate that was much below 13% for one or more years in the last 20. The fact that his “summary” of taxes was averaged over many years suggests that this was done to disguise the fact that one year was particularly low. If he paid a very low rate in a year (let’s say for the sake of argument 1%), this would look very very bad politically, even if it was all done legitimately. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/166 "2012-09-26T03:05:14Z")
Romney has every right to withhold his tax history. It doesn’t mean he is being dishonest. It does mean we can exclude him from a job because of it. One candidate is offering a more honest history of their taxes than the other. If someone applying for an entry level job sure they could take a principled stand and say ‘I’m going to leave the past employment part blank because it’s an entry level job’ that means I don’t have to have a work history relevant to it. The other guy fills out his past employment. When I see the huge blank spot on the first guys resume I’m going to decide not to interview him because he doesn’t even have the basic customs of job application down. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/167 "2012-09-26T18:53:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > What do you mean he **can** lie as if there was some doubt? He **does** lie. > Richard Nixon lied too. I’m not expecting Mitt to come clean or anything - just that the opposition would make the absurdity of his claims so clear that his lying would be pitiful and inadequate. > And I’m a realist. If that happened I’d fully expect Fox News to be crowing about his ability to get such good returns means he is even more suited to be president. Yeah, like I said, you can spin it away. It took people months to understand the basics of securitization and credit default swaps. You think people are going to understand enough of the tax law to see that Romney was pulling a fast one? > [@jshore](#): > > Fine, and he could appeal to the principle that he would not unfairly disadvantage his son with an embarrassing name. But, you still haven’t answered my question of what higher principle withholding his tax returns is standing on here. The principle of shut up, I want to talk about something else. No not Bain. No not my governorship. No not Romneycare. I’d like to focus on the fact that we aren’t at full employment because Obama hates America. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think it’s manifestly unfair to accuse Romney of doing something illegal in the absence of any direct evidence. Yeah but I don’t have to ignore my suspicions either. You make it sound like this is some sort of birtherism. If Romney released his tax returns so that i could see if he filed the form taking advantage of the amnesty and the schedules for his IRA contributions then I would cease to suspect him. I wouldn’t need to ask for the long form or anything like that. > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It’s not unreasonable to do it voluntarily. It’s unreasonable to assume nefarious activity because someone chooses not to. Not having to prove your innocence is another good principle to stand on. Not if you have given me every reason to believe that you have engaged in tax shananigans. > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Do you honestly believe that if he released his returns that undecided voters would suddenly decide to vote for him? I think it might make some people more comfortable voting for him. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/168 "2012-09-26T19:00:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It wasn’t a tax holiday. In fact you paid a 100% tax on any of your previously unreported foreign earnings If so, then the aggregated average he released probably resulted from years of paying little to nothing and one year of sucking it up financially in order to buy off the risk of going to jail. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/169 "2012-09-27T04:41:03Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Obviously not, he wouldn’t be so desperately trying to avoid releasing them if there was no damaging information there. This! ex Not trying to be snarky, but Mitt has obviously done the math and decided that “taking a principled stand (but prevaricating about it) is more advantageous than how his tax returns will be perceived by the general electorate.” One can choose to 1. take a principled stand from the very beginning (and probably get no where fast but pigs can fly occaisionally 2. more or less follow the conventional norms or c) not put oneself under the spotlight of a presidential campaign. And, while one isn’t your father, having one’s father set a high standard certainly adds pressure. I mean Romney Sr with 12 years of returns set the gold standard for Presidential candidates. It’s not exactly \*fair \*to be tarred with your father’s brush but… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/170 "2012-09-27T07:44:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why is it unreasonable when candidates have been doing it for many years, and he coughed up his to the McCain campaign in the last cycle when he was being vetted for the Veep slot? You should also remember that in the very last election McCain released just two years of returns. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/171 "2012-09-27T07:47:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You should also remember that in the very last election McCain released just two years of returns. That is, in fact, quite notable. Which makes Mr. Reid’s attack rather nasty and dare I say, effective. It has tied Governor Romney’s campaign up for quite a while now. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/172 "2012-09-27T07:48:08Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > This! ex > > Not trying to be snarky, but Mitt has obviously done the math and decided that “taking a principled stand (but prevaricating about it) is more advantageous than how his tax returns will be perceived by the general electorate.” You’re ignoring another perfectly plausible explanation. That the campaign knows that even if everything is 100% perfectly fine, that low life’s like Harry Reid and Stephanie Cutter will just point to something and say, “Aha, what about this?!!” And this? And THIS?!!! From now until election day, preventing the campaign from focusing on the issues. That’s their game. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/173 "2012-09-27T07:49:11Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > That is, in fact, quite notable. Which makes Mr. Reid’s attack rather nasty and dare I say, effective. It has tied Governor Romney’s campaign up for quite a while now. Yup. Which is all they care about. The reason doesn’t matter. Just keep throwing shit against the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/174 "2012-09-27T08:29:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yup. Which is all they care about. The reason doesn’t matter. Just keep throwing shit against the wall. GOing after the tax returns of a POW old doddering man would have just seemed mean, and Obama was doing just fine with a positive campaign that focused on abstract endorphine high slogans and/or attacking Bush (yeah def some neg stuff there. Romney is a financier who’s pitch is how good he is with money who moved to France to dodge the draft and courts birthers. He’s an appropriate target for these criticisms. Deny it all you want. Romney is lame and his politics are lame. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/175 "2012-09-27T08:46:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re ignoring another perfectly plausible explanation. That the campaign knows that even if everything is 100% perfectly fine, that low life’s like Harry Reid and Stephanie Cutter will just point to something and say, “Aha, what about this?!!” And this? And THIS?!!! From now until election day, preventing the campaign from focusing on the issues. That’s their game. As I said before, of course Romney shouldn’t release his tax returns. After all, the Democrats might find something in them. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/176 "2012-09-27T13:07:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re ignoring another perfectly plausible explanation. That the campaign knows that even if everything is 100% perfectly fine, that low life’s like Harry Reid and Stephanie Cutter will just point to something and say, “Aha, what about this?!!” And this? And THIS?!!! From now until election day, preventing the campaign from focusing on the issues. That’s their game. And having ‘lowlifes’ asking “What’s he hiding?” is working out so much better… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/177 "2012-09-27T13:57:00Z")
Balzac got it right 150 years ago: “Behind every great fortune lies a great crime.” In Mitten’s case, maybe just great shenanigans. In either case, if his tax records come to light he’s toast. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/178 "2012-09-27T14:37:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yup. Which is all they care about. The reason doesn’t matter. Just keep throwing shit against the wall. Jesus, **Magellan** , you make this sound like …_birthers_ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/179 "2012-09-27T15:15:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …just point to something and say, “Aha, what about this?!!” And this? And THIS!!! From now until election day, preventing the campaign from focusing on the issues. That’s their game. Why didn’t that happen to Obama after he released his tax returns? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415/180 "2012-09-27T15:19:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yup. Which is all they care about. The reason doesn’t matter. Just keep throwing shit against the wall. > [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Jesus, **Magellan** , you make this sound like …_birthers_ :rolleyes: [Kos just posted a rather insightful commentary](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/27/1136683/--Dick-versus-the-kitchen-sink-The-importance-of-narrative) on precisely that point: > [@](#): > > From Day 1, all of Mitt Romney’s foes had a clear narrative about him—he was a callous, heartless, elitist, vulture capitalist. In other words, “a dick.” > > The stage was set by Occupy with their “99 percent” narrative, which allowed Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich to get mileage with their “vulture capitalist” attacks against Romney before the party establishment shut them down. > > But it’s been the liberal establishment that has cemented that narrative, from the genuinely liberal media, to the Democratic Party, to the big money groups (from Super PACs to labor unions to progressive issue groups). It’s been an easy narrative to work with, given that Mitt Romney is genuinely a dick… > > Now let’s look at the conservative narrative against Barack Obama—he’s an incompetent bumbler in way over his head! But he’s also a ruthless communist hell-bent on destroying capitalism. He’s a secret Muslim! But he associated with a racist Christian preacher. He’s not even American, doesn’t understand our values and was probably born in Kenya! But he’s a corrupt Chicago street thug. > > It’s quite obvious why Republicans can’t get any traction against a president who should’ve been, by all measures, vulnerable this year. If you’re an undecided voter, you’ve got two messages hitting you. The first is all about Romney’s immense wealth and inability to connect or even understand people like you. The other is a “throw shit against the wall to see what’ll stick” mishmash of crazy. > > Is it any wonder that our side is winning?.. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romney-to-post-summary-of-his-taxes/635415.md?page=10)