# Romney's 47% comment, why the big deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939 "2013-03-14T19:05:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/21 "2013-03-14T19:57:26Z")
> [@grude](#): > > It was pretty clear from the context of the video he was saying the 47% would never have republican ideals anyway, so he was saying no matter what he does those people will never vote for him/vote republican. But as mentioned the 47% include people making do on Social Security, and the elderly were one demographic Romney did well in. His simplistic view did not consider that these people worked all their lives, and are no less responsible now than they were then. Plus he explicitly said that people who expected government funded food or healthcare because they couldn’t afford it were moochers also. Being against Romney I mean Obamacare because there is a more efficient method is one thing, being against it because it provides health care to those who wouldn’t get it otherwise is another. I think the real reason it was a big idea was that many guessed that conservatives said screw those not as well off as they are in private - and here we got to hear what he said in private, and we found out we were correct. We found out what Romney really believed, or what he told rich donors he believed. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/22 "2013-03-14T19:58:32Z")
I think he took a pretty good point and made a complete mess out of it. Of course if 47% or so of people don’t pay any net taxes, and that number is rising, then we’re heading in the wrong direction. . . but, that doesn’t mean that that 47% is lazy. But, I think anyone with half a brain could understand the point he was trying to make, but you can’t leave an opening like that in a very heated election. Most of the people making a big deal of it were completely politically motivated, and that’s the game. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/23 "2013-03-14T20:02:50Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Of course if 47% or so of people don’t pay any net taxes, and that number is rising, then we’re heading in the wrong direction. . . Of course, this statement is hilariously wrong, for the reason Bryan Ekers mentioned. Being hilariously wrong, no points made by assuming this to be true can be defined as “good”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/24 "2013-03-14T20:03:47Z")
I wonder if someone born that wealthy has any concept of what it is like to be poor. Perhaps they seriously believe that “the 47 %” are a bunch of stupid, lazy selfish folks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/25 "2013-03-14T20:14:24Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > I think he took a pretty good point and made a complete mess out of it. Of course if 47% or so of people don’t pay any net taxes, and that number is rising, then we’re heading in the wrong direction. . . but, that doesn’t mean that that 47% is lazy. And what’s the best way of getting people in the position to pay taxes (not counting the retired and those in active service in war zones)? Get them employed. Get them higher wages. What do Republicans recommend? More tax cuts for the rich. Productivity is improving, businesses are making lots of money, but the people aren’t getting any of it. And then scum like Romney calls them slackers. I do hope you are in favor of raising the minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/26 "2013-03-14T20:19:14Z")
Ultimately it didn’t cost him the election or (probably) even a large number of votes, it just made him look like an asshole. It’s true that both sides have a certain amount of support that’s pretty much unshakeable and 47% isn’t a bad estimate. After all, Romney wound up with 47.2% of the popular vote. He went wrong by saying all that for Democrats, that entire bloc is made up of lazy welfare moochers who will never take any responsibility for their lives. That’s wrong and very insulting. And coming from a guy who was born into money and political privilege and became an extremely wealthy venture capitalist and politician, it was galling. Add to that the fact that he was talking to supporters in private: it suggested this was something he really thought but wouldn’t say to the public. And he couldn’t quite figure out how to distance himself from the comment because some of his supporters think what he said is true and applauded him for saying it, so he tried two or three different responses and none of them satisfied people. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/27 "2013-03-14T20:20:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m amused by how “federal income taxes” is the very specific benchmark in play. I’ve asked people who tout this as a national divide how they feel about people who pay sales taxes, payroll taxes, gasoline taxes, school and property taxes… and nope, their arguments always come back to who pays “federal income taxes”, as if it was Captain America’s shield or something. I’m not saying I necessarily subscribe to this, but I do hear about it from relatives a lot, is that all those other taxes- payroll, sales, gasoline, school and property taxes are all things EVERYONE pays in some fashion or another- some are usage taxes, some are blanket taxes, and some are passed-through even for non-property owners. Contrast that with federal income tax, which is probably the largest or one of the largest single taxes that the 53% pay, it seems particularly frustrating to see the government take a two-digit percentage of your gross pay, and then to have other people not have to pay at all. That’s also, IMO, a lot of the reason for the various flat tax proposals you see thrown around every so often. Take that attitude and combine it with the perception that most of the 47% are in their poverty due to poor decisions or lack of foresight, and it starts looking like a “no good deed (or decision) goes unpunished” kind of situation- you work hard, and you do what you should, and the government will take an ever-increasing chunk of the money you earned, while if you don’t do those things, you’re off the hook. I know it’s a lot more complicated than that, but that’s sort of the “grassroots” conservative feeling concerning why the payment or not of Federal Income Tax is such an issue, as relayed to me by relatives and friends and their friends on Facebook, via emails and in person. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/28 "2013-03-14T20:26:42Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Of course, this statement is hilariously wrong, for the reason Bryan Ekers mentioned. Being hilariously wrong, no points made by assuming this to be true can be defined as “good”. No, if fewer and fewer are paying federal taxes, then that is a problem concerning the federal budget. That’s very simple. And, that is not a comment on other taxes. And it’s also true that many people that don’t pay any taxes are fine, upstanding people that work hard and deserve any kind of breaks they can get. That’s the point that Mitt Romney missed. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/29 "2013-03-14T20:30:02Z")
Besides, there is the fact that the POTUS is kind of our top diplomat, and if he is that tone-deaf domestically, who wants him spewing stupid as our representative on the world stage. It’s one thing to not give a damn about, say, Chad, but another to stand up in a room and say it. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/30 "2013-03-14T20:31:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Ok I’ve read a lot of newstories on this and not one has explained why it was such a big deal, the comment was not far from the truth and was not so outlandishly outrageous(like saying hey lets use poor kids for food!). > > Why was this seen as a massive blunder? Many combat veterans from America’s Wars going back to WWII are in that 47% that do not currently pay Federal Income Taxes. So that is a slap in the face by a man from a family that does not serve in wars. They apparently find it more important to serve the Mormon Church as Romney did during Vietnam. On top of that Romney had protested against college students that were protesting against the Vietnam era draft. He was all for drafting those that could not afford college, but of course he was not man enough to enlist, in fact he sought every way to avoid serving available at the time. Romney went to France to try to convince the French not to drink. This video clip captured what a despicable human being Romney is, when spoke thinking in private, to people who paid $50,000 to hear him utter untrue and a mostly obnoxious and bigoted opinion about half the people he claimed he wanted to serve as president. There are many things wrong with what Romney said, but a big one for me was that this combat avoider, was even trashing the self-less men and women currently serving in combat who do not pay Federal Income Taxes because they are paying with their lives on the line for their country. And Romney wanted to be their Commander in Chief. Screw him. He should not have received the 47% of votes that he ended up with. What is wrong with working class Americans and small business owners who voted for Romney and Ryan? He never had a working man’s back and never intended to have it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/31 "2013-03-14T20:41:08Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > No, if fewer and fewer are paying federal taxes, then that is a problem concerning the federal budget. That’s very simple. And, that is not a comment on other taxes. > > And it’s also true that many people that don’t pay any taxes are fine, upstanding people that work hard and deserve any kind of breaks they can get. That’s the point that Mitt Romney missed. Why not comment on other taxes, do they not count? Are they not paid with real money? When you use tax payments to reflect on the decency of people, their dependency on government, their status as ‘victims’, their lack of personal responsibility, you don’t get to separate their tax payments into one kind that matter and another kind that you don’t feel like commenting on. It is dishonest bullshit. Edited to add: It’s 100% fair to discuss those who don’t pay federal income tax when discussing issues with fully funding the federal government, just don’t turn it into an attack on their character. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/32 "2013-03-14T21:07:34Z")
Mitt Romney expected to win majorities in enough states to be President while writing off not only the large amount of people who survive by being net takers of government benefits, lawsuits, scams on businesses, etc, but also all of the military members, retirees, children, working poor, and others who you need to count to reach that 47% figure. If nothing else the video showed that he lacks the necessary intelligence and judgment to be President. Obama managed to win despite being roughly as divisive in his constant war on anyone who does have a job or (horror horrorum) employs other people, because he is smart enough not to vocalize it so directly to his base and because a lot of people have non-economic reasons for voting (while I question what Obama has really done for sexual minorities or women, you’d have to be a goddamn idiot to vote for Romney if you’re one of those). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/33 "2013-03-14T21:13:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Many combat veterans from America’s Wars going back to WWII are in that 47% that do not currently pay Federal Income Taxes. That’s true. They’re among the people who complained about what he said. > [@](#): > > he sought every way to avoid serving available at the time. I don’t think that’s even close to true. Do we have to do another round of ‘let’s accuse someone of draft dodging even though the war was wrong anyway?’ As far as I know, his actions were one, going to college, and two, going on a mission, which is typical for Mormons. Neither really qualifies as avoiding anything and both were probably undertaken out of conviction rather than a wish to avoid getting drafted. And there were other means available as we all know. I also don’t see the point in getting worked up over the fact that he supposedly joined one counter protest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/34 "2013-03-14T21:15:23Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Because it was: > > (a) False. There may be 47% of the country on government assistance of some sort and 47% that don’t pay incomes taxes, but they are not the same people (and the numbers are off anyways). > > (b) Tone-deaf. A person as rich as Romney, talking to other rich people about how put upon they are by folks too poor to pay taxes is unseemly. > > (c) Insulting to large segments of the population that he needed votes from (including but not limited to old people on SS and Medicare). > > (d) Divisive by attempting to split the country into “producers” and “takers”. Nobody is all one or the other, and many people are one for part of their life and the other for another part. That’s sort of the point of a safety net - to catch those that fall so they can move back up. > > Just for the record, here is the most pertinent part of the transccript: This is such an excellent answer that I feel like asking **Colibri** to move this thread back to GQ! I don’t think there is anything anyone can add to that. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/35 "2013-03-14T21:15:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m not saying I necessarily subscribe to this, but I do hear about it from relatives a lot, Sometimes I believe that the “class warfare” may be an accurate term. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/36 "2013-03-14T21:17:17Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > No, if fewer and fewer are paying federal taxes, then that is a problem concerning the federal budget. That’s very simple. And, that is not a comment on other taxes. Payroll taxes also affect the federal budget. Why exclude them? I mean, other than the fact that rich people pay less payroll tax than other working Americans. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/37 "2013-03-14T21:22:44Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Obama managed to win despite being roughly as divisive in his constant war on anyone who does have a job or (horror horrorum) employs other people :dubious: He is Hitler, too, huh? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/38 "2013-03-14T21:30:35Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Payroll taxes also affect the federal budget. Why exclude them? I mean, other than the fact that rich people pay less payroll tax than other working Americans. They don’t pay less. They pay a less percentage of their income, but they pay more in absolute amounts. And that’s a bargain cut because your benefits cap out, too. SS was set up to mimic a retirement plan, even though it is really just a generational transfer tax (from the young to the old)-- what you get back is related to how much you put in. Now, it needed be that way, but that’s the way most Americans appreciate it to be. I’m not sure you could get away with eliminating one cap without the other. That is, taking away the cap on taxes without doing something about the cap on benefits. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/39 "2013-03-14T21:31:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ultimately it didn’t cost him the election or (probably) even a large number of votes, it just made him look like an asshole. It’s true that both sides have a certain amount of support that’s pretty much unshakeable and 47% isn’t a bad estimate. After all, Romney wound up with 47.2% of the popular vote. He went wrong by saying all that for Democrats, that entire bloc is made up of lazy welfare moochers who will never take any responsibility for their lives. That’s wrong and very insulting. And coming from a guy who was born into money and political privilege and became an extremely wealthy venture capitalist and politician, it was galling. Add to that the fact that he was talking to supporters in private: it suggested this was something he really thought but wouldn’t say to the public. And he couldn’t quite figure out how to distance himself from the comment because some of his supporters think what he said is true and applauded him for saying it, so he tried two or three different responses and none of them satisfied people. Rarely does any single act or comment swing an election one way or another, but I do consider this a significant factor in Romney’s loss. It hit the airwaves right at the time Romney wanted to consolidate the Republican base, and could have affected the outcome in a state like Ohio. I’m not saying it certainly did change things, and we can’t go back in time to see how things would have turned out differently, but I do think this lowered turnout for him and increased it for Obama, (and I am counting the after effect of his failure to explain it away as part of the whole). ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939/40 "2013-03-14T21:32:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They don’t pay less. They pay a less percentage of their income, but they pay more in absolute amounts. Unless they make their money from capital gains rather than salary. But your point is well taken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/romneys-47-comment-why-the-big-deal/652939.md?page=3)