# Ron Guidry: Hall of Famer? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738 "2010-07-15T01:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KennerTheGreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a8b319/32.png) [@KennerTheGreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennerTheGreat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/1 "2010-07-15T01:56:18Z")
[Gator’s BBRef card.](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/guidrro01.shtml) I’m a little surprised that Guidry had almost no Hall of Fame support from the BBWAA. He never received more than 8.8% of the vote (2000), finally falling off the ballot altogether after 2002. He didn’t hang around long enough to put up great counting numbers, but he was a four-time All-Star, a Cy Young winner, a five-time Gold Glove winner and twice a world champion. His jersey number 49 was retired by the Yankees in 2003, and in three World Series, he was 3-1 with a 1.69 ERA. What say the Dope? ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/2 "2010-07-15T02:03:34Z")
He didn’t pitch long enough (2392 IP), nor well enough (he basically only had 4 good seasons) to qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/3 "2010-07-15T02:05:32Z")
In my part of the world, he was known as Louisiana Lightning. And yeah, this shameless homer would put him in the hall. But not before the Mighty Murph gets in. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/4 "2010-07-15T03:48:50Z")
No. I’ve always believed you need a decade’s worth of excellent play to qualify for the Hall of Fame, and Guidry doesn’t come close. The only exception to this rule is if you have five years of near superhuman numbers (eg Koufax and Dizzy Dean). Had he been able to sustain his 1978 perfomance for a few years I’d consider him, but he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/5 "2010-07-15T04:59:51Z")
Yeah, sorry, not good enough for long enough. One transcendent year, three or four more very good to outstanding years…not enough. Starting pitchers have a hard time sniffing the Hall without 300 wins, and Guidry didn’t even get to 200. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/6 "2010-07-15T14:54:15Z")
Agree with everything said - just not good enough for long enough. Add in that he was a Yankee, and it’s a clear no vote for me… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/7 "2010-07-15T14:58:58Z")
His career numbers aren’t as good as those of (picking 4) David Cone, Dave Stieb, Kevin Appier, or Bret Saberhagen; none of them had a best year quite as good as Guidry’s, but outside of that, he doesn’t have anything on that group of good-but-not-HOF pitchers. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/8 "2010-07-15T15:03:26Z")
Gotta agree with the concensus here. Guidry had a few outstanding seasons, but lacked the long-term greatness required to be in the Hall. No way does 170 wins get you there, at least not as a guy who was pitching in the 70s and 80s (probably not even these days). 270 wins would put him in the conversation, but not 170. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/9 "2010-07-15T16:11:10Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > No way does 170 wins get you there, at least not as a guy who was pitching in the 70s and 80s (probably not even these days). Excellent point. 300 wins has been a traditional (if flawed) barometer of a successful career for a pitcher. With the standardization of the five-man rotation, and shortened outings, it’s become a significantly more difficult milestone for pitchers to achieve, and we’ll likely see a lowering of that bar at some point…but Guidry pitched in an era in which 300 wins was still a legitimate milestone. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/10 "2010-07-15T16:15:15Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > His career numbers aren’t as good as those of (picking 4) David Cone, Dave Stieb, Kevin Appier, or Bret Saberhagen; none of them had a best year quite as good as Guidry’s, but outside of that, he doesn’t have anything on that group of good-but-not-HOF pitchers. Looking at career WARP for the five of them: Guidry 44.4 Cone 57.5 Stieb 53.0 Appier 50.4 Saberhagen 54.7 I think it helps illustrate the point…over the course of his career, Guidry simply didn’t do enough to merit election. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/11 "2010-07-15T18:14:38Z")
four-time All-Star: Meaningless a Cy Young winner: Nice, but meaningless five-time Gold Glove winner: Totally meaningless twice a world champion: Meaningless His jersey number 49 was retired by the Yankees in 2003: Meaningless in three World Series, he was 3-1 with a 1.69 ERA: Nice, but meaningless Like others have said, he had one superstar year, about 3 really good years, and rounded the other 10 years of his career off at nothing more than “pretty good”. There’s absolutely nothing there to push him into the Hall. He’s gonna have to pay for admission just like the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/12 "2010-07-15T19:13:08Z")
I loved Ron Guidry. He was probably my favorite player ever. But he just didn’t have enough great seasons to merit a spot in Cooperstown. If there were ANY way I could rationalize voting for him, believe me, I would. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/13 "2010-07-15T19:44:22Z")
Guidry’s HOF chances are hurt by the fact that he wasn’t a regular starter until he was 26 and his career ended when he was only 37. Thus, he had a late start and an early finish. He needed about three to five more seasons of at least above average performance to merit serious consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/14 "2010-07-16T00:28:06Z")
I wouldn’t let Guidry in. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/15 "2010-07-16T02:29:09Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Guidry’s HOF chances are hurt by the fact that he wasn’t a regular starter until he was 26 and his career ended when he was only 37. Thus, he had a late start and an early finish. He needed about three to five more seasons of at least above average performance to merit serious consideration. 37 is an early finish? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/16 "2010-07-16T11:23:09Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > 37 is an early finish? These days? Yes. Most of the guys who won 300 games kept pitching well past that age. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/17 "2010-07-16T15:02:47Z")
> [@MD12](#): > > He didn’t pitch long enough (2392 IP), nor well enough (he basically only had 4 good seasons) to qualify. I agree that he’s not a great candidate, but he had a “Good season” almost every year he was in the major leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/18 "2010-07-16T15:22:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Excellent point. 300 wins has been a traditional (if flawed) barometer of a successful career for a pitcher. With the standardization of the five-man rotation, and shortened outings, it’s become a significantly more difficult milestone for pitchers to achieve, and we’ll likely see a lowering of that bar at some point…but Guidry pitched in an era in which 300 wins was still a legitimate milestone. Actually, I don’t think that’s quite accurate - by the time Guidry started, pitching wins were already down, and the medical improvements (and in at least one case steroid use) that allowed some pitchers to continue pitching later into their 40s hadn’t really come into full effect yet. There are zero pitchers who started in the 1970s who have 300 wins; the closest is Bert Blyleven, who started in 1970. If anything, the bar is going to be raised again, with four guys who started in the '80s, plus just maybe Jamie Moyer, reaching 300. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/19 "2010-07-16T19:21:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I agree that he’s not a great candidate, but he had a “Good season” almost every year he was in the major leagues. Only if you define “good season” as being average or slightly better than average. If you define “good season” as an ERA+ of 120 or better, and require your pitchers to throw a reasonable number of innings, then he only has 4 seasons which qualify. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738/20 "2010-07-16T19:36:58Z")
> [@MD12](#): > > Only if you define “good season” as being average or slightly better than average. If you define “good season” as an ERA+ of 120 or better, and require your pitchers to throw a reasonable number of innings, then he only has 4 seasons which qualify. That’s a strange, arbitrary and quite illogical definition, in my humble opinion. It would exclude, for instance, his 1983 season, when he went 21-9, completed 21 (!) out of 31 starts, pitched 250 innings, and had an ERA of 3.42, because 3.42 is just 14 percent better than the league average rather than 20. If 1983 wasn’t a good season, what was it? It sure wasn’t mediocre. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-guidry-hall-of-famer/546738.md?page=2)