# Ron Paul, pros/cons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888 "2012-01-09T03:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/41 "2012-01-09T22:19:53Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I said he might be homophobic. The behavior you described would make him racist. You’re showing a rather disturbing double standard behavior towards gays that “might make him homophobic” would definitely “make him racist” were it directed at blacks. Please explain. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/42 "2012-01-09T22:20:47Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > So you’re essentially saying we’re due for a libertarian whacko to shift the tide back around to balance out the republican/democrat whackos. That’s not even close to what he said. ---
**Author:** ![astroidea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@astroidea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astroidea)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/43 "2012-01-09T22:22:04Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Ron Paul seems to be one of the more principled national politicians which I mostly admire, even though I don’t agree with many of his positions. What you consider to be pro or con depends on where you sit on the political spectrum. > > Being a moderate Republican, I’m happy to have Paul in the legislature. He’s a fiscal hawk and tries to reign in Federal spending. I wouldn’t mind having a few more Pauls in congress as I believe their overall influence is low. > > **However, I would consider him a disaster as a president, largely because he’s isolationist.** I don’t think he could do too much damage to the economy because he’d be limited by congress (e.g. they’d never agree to a gold standard) but he’d have too much autonomy in our foreign policy. Active military personnel disagrees with you, so does the CIA of the bin Laden division. https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xao_i4sTgXU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque The neocon politicians in Washington DC agrees with you. Hmmm, I think I’d side with the former. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/44 "2012-01-09T22:22:42Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > So the best argument for Ron Paul is that he wouldn’t be able to get most of his ideas implemented??? That’s pretty much it. If elected, he’ll be able to push Congress in the direction of the bad ideas his supporters like, but he’ll lack any influence to advance the bad ideas his supporters don’t like (or rather, don’t care about). Win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/45 "2012-01-09T22:26:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I also know that many of his policies would help the black community, so it wouldn’t stop me from voting for him. I’m sure most Americans really like how he opposed the establishment of Martin Luther King Day. What a principled stand! Why, his opposition to that holiday simply transcends any question of racism! Or wait a second… who was it that actually [voted against](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/01/mlk-day-fact-check/251037/) MLK Day? Was it Ron Paul or Lew Rockwell? Did Ron Paul even know that he voted against MLK Day? ETA: Ha! Below is a pro-Ron Paul site “clearing the record” on Paul’s steadfast opposition to MLK Day: [http://www.dailypaul.com/196197/martin-luther-king-day-ron-pauls-vote](http://www.dailypaul.com/196197/martin-luther-king-day-ron-pauls-vote) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/46 "2012-01-09T22:31:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m sure most Americans really like how he opposed the establishment of Martin Luther King Day. What a principled stand! Why, his opposition to that holiday simply transcends any question of racism! He’s not very good at passing legislation and does a lousy job advocating for some of his views, but for a guy who isn’t a racist, he definitely does a skilled impression of a racist. ---
**Author:** ![astroidea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@astroidea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astroidea)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/47 "2012-01-09T22:41:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not even close to what he said. OK that’s not what he said. But if you agree with Ron Paul on foreign policy issues like the military and CIA does, that is pretty close to what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/48 "2012-01-09T22:45:05Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > But if you agree with Ron Paul on foreign policy issues like the military and CIA does, that is pretty close to what he said. No, it isn’t. That’s your opinion, but he didn’t say anything like that. Meanwhile, the military and the CIA don’t agree with Paul. There are people in the military and CIA who do, but you can’t back up a blanket assertion like that. It’s false to imply that the entire military or intelligence community agrees with him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/49 "2012-01-09T22:45:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I also know that many of his policies would help the black community . . . How would they? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/50 "2012-01-09T22:47:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Why deflect on Paul’s claim that Wilson’s foreign policy decisions contributed to WWII? Because it’s ignorant or insane. Wilson didn’t even approve of the Germany-punitive terms of the Versailles Treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/51 "2012-01-09T23:03:35Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > OK that’s not what he said. > > But if you agree with Ron Paul on foreign policy issues like the military and CIA does, that is pretty close to what he said. Er, you haven’t shown that. You simply showed that one former CIA agent agrees with Paul. Scheuer it should also be noted is more than a little unstable, a huge media whore and hardly representative of the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![astroidea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@astroidea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astroidea)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/52 "2012-01-09T23:20:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, it isn’t. That’s your opinion, but he didn’t say anything like that. Meanwhile, the military and the CIA don’t agree with Paul. There are people in the military and CIA who do, but you can’t back up a blanket assertion like that. It’s false to imply that the entire military or intelligence community agrees with him. He is for a lot of Paul’s issues - to a degree. He states several republican/democrat status quo policies that he belives are whacko. He agrees that as president, the whacko libertarian wouldn’t have enough influence to fully implement his policies. But he also agreed that as president, he would have the “autonomy” to push his disastrous foreign policy. So if you side with 71% of the military political contributors, as well as the former CIA chief, then how is it not logical to imply the whacko libertarian would be a great way to balance out the whacko republican/democratic policies in place now? ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/53 "2012-01-09T23:21:07Z")
Can anybody else think of a candidate with supporters who’ve said “Oh don’t worry about all that crazy stuff, he won’t be able to actually do _that_.” Maybe I’ve missed something but I can’t remember anything quite like it. ---
**Author:** ![astroidea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@astroidea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astroidea)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/54 "2012-01-09T23:22:42Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er, you haven’t shown that. > > You simply showed that one former CIA agent agrees with Paul. > > Scheuer it should also be noted is more than a little unstable, a huge media whore and hardly representative of the CIA. He isn’t just any former CIA agent, he was the former chief of the bin Laden unit. But of course, it’s easy to just label him as unstable and a media whore. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/55 "2012-01-09T23:34:21Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > He isn’t just any former CIA agent, he was the former chief of the bin Laden unit. But of course, it’s easy to just label him as unstable and a media whore. Chief of the Bin Laden issue station from '96 to '99, Special Advisor to the Chief of the Bin Laden Unit from '01 to '04. Must have been a real pro at his job, handling that Bin Laden problem so successfully all that time. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/56 "2012-01-09T23:39:58Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > He isn’t just any former CIA agent, he was the former chief of the bin Laden unit. But of course, it’s easy to just label him as unstable and a media whore. You’re using the term “Chief” like he was a station chief. He wasn’t. During the late 90s, when he was the head of that unit it consisted of less than a dozen people and was viewed as a dumping ground for rejects. He was the head of it because no one else wanted it. Since then he’s tried to parlay that part of his career into making a lot of money by making many alarmist and extremist claims from blaming Bill Clinton for 911, a “fifth Column” in America for the Iraq War, and in claiming in 2009 that there was a strong possibility Al Quaeda was close to detonating a nuke in the US. Beyond that, you’ve done nothing to substantiate you’re eye-opening claim that both the military and the CIA agree with the racist Ron Paul. ---
**Author:** ![astroidea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@astroidea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astroidea)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/57 "2012-01-09T23:42:38Z")
> [@Terraplane](#): > > Chief of the Bin Laden issue station from '96 to '99, Special Advisor to the Chief of the Bin Laden Unit from '01 to '04. Must have been a real pro at his job, handling that Bin Laden problem so successfully all that time. I’d still take his opinion over the establishment, that has nearly bankrupted us bringing us into a war with those dangerous Iraqis with weapons of mass destruction. ---
**Author:** ![astroidea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@astroidea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astroidea)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/58 "2012-01-09T23:44:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re using the term “Chief” like he was a station chief. He wasn’t. > > During the late 90s, when he was the head of that unit it consisted of less than a dozen people and was viewed as a dumping ground for rejects. He was the head of it because no one else wanted it. > > Since then he’s tried to parlay that part of his career into making a lot of money by making many alarmist and extremist claims from blaming Bill Clinton for 911, a “fifth Column” in America for the Iraq War, and in claiming in 2009 that there was a strong possibility Al Quaeda was close to detonating a nuke in the US. > > Beyond that, you’ve done nothing to substantiate you’re eye-opening claim that both the military and the CIA agree with the racist Ron Paul. Got any sources to back up your claims? Here’s something to substantiate my claim of the military. [![](http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rep-Field-piechart1-sm.gif) ](http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rep-Field-piechart1-sm.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/59 "2012-01-09T23:47:30Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > I’d still take his opinion over the establishment, that has nearly bankrupted us bringing us into a war with those dangerous Iraqis with weapons of mass destruction. Yes, because the CIA had nothing to do with the Iraq War. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888/60 "2012-01-09T23:53:59Z")
> [@astroidea](#): > > Here’s something to substantiate my claim of the military. > [http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rep-Field-piechart1-sm.gif](http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rep-Field-piechart1-sm.gif) Who put that pie chart together and how did they gather their information? > [@](#): > > Got any sources to back up your claims? I don’t mean to sound rude, but have you read any of his stuff or are you basing your opinion of him on a four minute TV clip, and that he once held an important-sounding title? I ask, because I related fairly basic well-known facts about him that both his detractors and defenders are well aware of? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-pros-cons/608888.md?page=4)