# Ron Paul: Why/how is he snapping up delegates? To what purpose? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182 "2012-05-07T15:42:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/61 "2012-05-09T14:27:03Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Delegates are chosen, and are bound to cast their vote for the individual who garnered the most votes (as is proper). However, there exists the possibility that some shenanigans could go down wherein those votes, and thus the majority if the voters in a given states (say, Nevada) would then be disenfranchised by the Paul team as they happily vote for THEIR guy. > > They are hoping, in essence, for an opportunity to FORCE the GOP to run with Paul. As I understand it, forcing folks to do something they don’t want to do is anathema to the Libertarian ideal. By the same logic, no libertarian should ever enter a pie-eating contest, because if they won, the people running the contest would be FORCED to give them the prize. Contradiction: Exposed! :rolleyes: Were Paul by some miracle to win the GOP nomination, under GOP rules, GOP members would still be free to vote however they like. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/62 "2012-05-09T14:42:39Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Were Paul by some miracle to win the GOP nomination, under GOP rules, GOP members would still be free to vote however they like. Yes, but I think the underlying premise is that the Paul supporters might be willing to use various underhanded techniques to make sure Romney doesn’t win on the first ballot. That is the problem, not the rules that allow them to vote for their own candidate after the first ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/63 "2012-05-09T20:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Measure for Measure** : > > But are the paradoxes empirically significant? I once read a study about a British Union election where they had the group vote in a number of ways. It turns out that the results were pretty similar… except for first past the post voting. Now it’s possible that after a point people were just blindly checking boxes. But I haven’t been especially convinced of the salience of these (inevitable) paradoxes in practice, except of course for the spoiler effect in winner-take-all voting. My preference for methods other than IRV is largely a matter of idealism: If one method is objectively provably strictly superior to another, then it seems silly to a techie like me to ever use the dominated method, even if it almost never makes a difference. In practice, though, I recognize that the perfect is the enemy of the good, and that IRV has a lot higher chance to ever be implemented than something like Condorcet, while still being nearly as much of an improvement over the current system. > [@](#): > > I suspect that Santorum will be forgiven pretty quickly: the #2 candidate… Was that one deliberate? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/64 "2012-05-11T12:15:27Z")
Unfortunately you need to watch the video [on this page](http://www.fox19.com/story/18305604/reality-check-why-all-rnc-delegates-are-free-agents-and-unbound) but it is interesting. It makes the case that delegates to the RNC convention are unbound and free to vote for whoever they want. The plot thickens… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/65 "2012-05-11T14:32:32Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yes, but I think the underlying premise is that the Paul supporters might be willing to use various underhanded techniques to make sure Romney doesn’t win on the first ballot. That is the problem, not the rules that allow them to vote for their own candidate after the first ballot. If that’s the claim – some kind of fraud and/or violation of the rules – then yes (though I don’t see any sign that that is what is happening or is intended). ---
**Author:** ![independentDemocrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ba9def/32.png) [@independentDemocrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentDemocrat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/66 "2012-05-11T16:23:08Z")
he is snatching delegates up to win! with Santourum and Gingrich out their delegates may vote Paul now cuz Romney is scum! Romney is a Democrat in Mormon sheep’s clothing lol ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/67 "2012-05-11T16:27:05Z")
Well, yes, you get delegates to win, but Paul knows he’s not going to win. I’m not sure he thought he ever had a chance in this electoral cycle, but if there was, it went away a long time ago. I don’t know what the hell “Mormon sheep’s clothing” is supposed to mean. Left to his own devices Romney is probably not a far-right conservative, but Mormons are a conservative bunch for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/68 "2012-05-12T00:40:44Z")
> [@independentDemocrat](#): > > he is snatching delegates up to win! with Santourum and Gingrich out their delegates may vote Paul now cuz Romney is scum! Romney is a Democrat in Mormon sheep’s clothing lol Whoosh or Poe’s Law? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/69 "2012-05-14T18:53:54Z")
[Paul essentially quit campaigning today and said he’ll only compete for delegates through the convention process.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/14/breaking-ron-paul-to-end-active-campaigning/?hpt=hp_t3) His campaign doesn’t have much money and I’ve heard it pointed out that by quitting now, he avoids getting his butt kicked in his home state (Texas) and in his son’s home state (Kentucky). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/70 "2012-05-14T23:24:21Z")
The Ron Paul dream is over!! Now he can start his 2016 run, and become the new Harold Stassen. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/71 "2012-05-21T15:52:46Z")
[Ron Paul won 12 of 13 delegates in Minnesota’s state GOP convention](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2012/0520/Ron-Paul-bloodless-coup-in-Minnesota-takes-most-delegates.-Now-what) Looks like it’s going to be an interesting convention. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/72 "2012-05-22T05:38:47Z")
From Rhythmdvl’s CSMonitor article: As reported by Jon Ward on Huffington Post, Paul wants several things to be included in the GOP platform at Tampa: a proposal for stricter oversight of the Federal Reserve, a ban on indefinite detention of American citizens, and a provision advocating greater freedom on the Internet. Not that my political instincts are sound, but those demands seem pretty smart. #3 is a crowd-pleaser. #2 makes Ron Paul sound serious. And the first is possibly toxic, possibly not, but addresses a longstanding theme of RP and his base. After the 2012 election, I suspect that the RP caucus reps will not simply disperse. I could imagine them running for office in various local capacities. They might just be able to point to some national accomplishments by 2020, which is remarkable for a fringe group. Lefties should pull out their pads and take notes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/73 "2012-05-22T06:26:48Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > From Rhythmdvl’s CSMonitor article: As reported by Jon Ward on Huffington Post, Paul wants several things to be included in the GOP platform at Tampa: a proposal for stricter oversight of the Federal Reserve, a ban on indefinite detention of American citizens, and a provision advocating greater freedom on the Internet. Not that my political instincts are sound, but those demands seem pretty smart. #3 is a crowd-pleaser. #2 makes Ron Paul sound serious. And the first is possibly toxic, possibly not, but addresses a longstanding theme of RP and his base. > > After the 2012 election, I suspect that the RP caucus reps will not simply disperse. I could imagine them running for office in various local capacities. They might just be able to point to some national accomplishments by 2020, which is remarkable for a fringe group. Lefties should pull out their pads and take notes. Form a stubborn lefty faction within the Dems and find a candidate (who we know can’t win the nomination, and if he did he’d lose the general election, but we’ll pretend otherwise) to rally 'round? Would that work? Dennis Kucinich’s efforts in that direction have never seemed to accomplish much. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/74 "2012-05-22T22:33:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Form a stubborn lefty faction within the Dems and find a candidate (who we know can’t win the nomination, and if he did he’d lose the general election, but we’ll pretend otherwise) to rally 'round? Would that work? Dennis Kucinich’s efforts in that direction have never seemed to accomplish much. That’s why lefties need to take _careful_ notes. I’m guessing that Ron Paul has repeatedly signaled to the insiders that he would never pull a 3rd party stunt if he was treated with a modicum of respect. It also helps that he focuses on stuff that amenable to the Republican base: I noticed pot decriminalization wasn’t on the list. In short, RP is corralling the wackadoodles and fringies for policies that are unobjectionable to the Republican base. He’s become an asset to the GOP rather than a threat. In other news former Governor Gary Johnson is hoping to become the next Libertarian Presidential candidate next fall. Here is his latest ad: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELWM9VS1PJQ&feature=relmfu](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELWM9VS1PJQ&feature=relmfu) I think it’s intended to appeal to fence-sitting libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/75 "2012-05-23T00:06:05Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > It also helps that he focuses on stuff that amenable to the Republican base: I noticed pot decriminalization wasn’t on the list. Dammit, isn’t it on **any** pol’s list?! :mad:☹ BTW: Here, [Penn Jillette rants about Obama & pot.](http://patdollard.com/2012/05/watch-penn-jillette-goes-on-epic-obama-weed-tirade/) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/76 "2012-05-23T20:59:16Z")
Funny, I just got a robo call trying to convince me to vote for Ron Paul in the TX Republican primary. That seems odd behavior for a campaign that is technically over. It made sure I was aware that doing so didn’t obligate me to vote Republican, and it didn’t mention pot or the Federal Reserve. I didn’t pay too much creed to the idea that Paul was continuing his campaign with an eye on monkey business at the convention until now. I don’t see another reason for a long shot to continue his campaign after declaring it over, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/77 "2012-05-23T21:04:45Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Funny, I just got a robo call trying to convince me to vote for Ron Paul in the TX Republican primary. That seems odd behavior for a campaign that is technically over. It’s a robo call. For all we know, an order was placed and nobody remembered to cancel it. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/78 "2012-05-23T23:00:03Z")
I can’t help wondering, what with continuing news reports of Paulbots grabbing delegate slots in state after state: Yes, supposedly many of them are technically duty-bound to vote for Romney on the first ballot; but what if they choose instead to abstain from voting at all? If enough delegates refuse to participate on the first ballot to give Romney the required number of votes, could they flip it to another round where they’d be free to vote for their hero? I know, I know; there’s probably something in the rules to prevent it; but do the Paulbots know that? Do they care? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/79 "2012-05-24T22:30:42Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > That’s why lefties need to take _careful_ notes. I’m guessing that Ron Paul has repeatedly signaled to the insiders that he would never pull a 3rd party stunt if he was treated with a modicum of respect. It also helps that he focuses on stuff that amenable to the Republican base: I noticed pot decriminalization wasn’t on the list. > > In short, RP is corralling the wackadoodles and fringies for policies that are unobjectionable to the Republican base. He’s become an asset to the GOP rather than a threat. OK, let’s take careful notes. What the Ronulans are doing here is called [entryism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entryism) – sneak into an established organization and take it over – a tactic generally associated with Trotskyite socialists, but I doubt they invented it, it’s got to be as old as any politics more complicated than “Do what the King says.” (But the Trots have never been able to apply it with much success.) Only time I can think of when it has worked in America was when the Religious Right won a lot of low-profile **local** elections in the 1980s by running its candidates “under the radar,” usually as Republicans, dissembling their real agenda and priorities, and the RR built up from that base and thereby became a major power within the GOP. And as an honest lefty, I’d rather have nothing to do with that, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182/80 "2012-06-03T18:28:19Z")
[http://www.ktbs.com/news/Breaking-Ron-Paul-supporters-takeover-Louisiana-Republican-State-Convention/-/144844/14439858/-/2c86yt/-/index.html](http://www.ktbs.com/news/Breaking-Ron-Paul-supporters-takeover-Louisiana-Republican-State-Convention/-/144844/14439858/-/2c86yt/-/index.html) So now Louisiana has two sets of delegates…this is going to be interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-paul-why-how-is-he-snapping-up-delegates-to-what-purpose/621182.md?page=5)