# Ron Paul's Plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082 "2011-10-18T23:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/222 "2011-10-25T22:53:44Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > That’s right nobody has been able to refute these claims. You haven’t backed up any of your claims. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/223 "2011-10-25T23:05:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So you don’t buy my argument that GDP is not an accurate measure of prosperity? > > How about the stagnation of private sector job growth during the depression. How do you explain that? > > That’s right nobody has been able to refute these claims. It might help, at this point, if you were to further **clarify** your claims. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/224 "2011-10-25T23:32:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Workfare employment stimulates private-sector employment because people on workfare now have money to spend. Just **giving** it to them would do the same, just as retirees’ pension checks stimulate private-sector employment (at least they do in **this** state!), but too many idiots would raise moral/ideological objections . . . so you just want to confiscate wealth from the rich and give it out willy nilly to anyone so they will spend it? Yeah I raise objections to that. Anyway like I said earlier, if your claim was true, real unemployment would have decreased. BUT IT DIDN’T. Only workfare employment increased ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/225 "2011-10-25T23:47:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > so you just want to confiscate wealth from the rich and give it out willy nilly to anyone so they will spend it? Yeah I raise objections to that. > > Anyway like I said earlier, if your claim was true, real unemployment would have decreased. BUT IT DIDN’T. Only workfare employment increased False. Completely false. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/226 "2011-10-25T23:51:09Z")
Will all of you please look at this graph and tell me where in the hell is there a meaningful drop in unemployment before we shipped out 11 million young men in warships? [![](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) Am I completely nuts here? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/227 "2011-10-25T23:54:29Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Will all of you please look at this graph and tell me where in the hell is there a meaningful drop in unemployment before we shipped out 11 million young men in warships? > > [File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) > > Am I completely nuts here? Ummm, 22% versus 14% is basically almost our entire current unemployment. Are you saying we don’t have meaningful unemployment currently? ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/228 "2011-10-26T00:13:49Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Will all of you please look at this graph and tell me where in the hell is there a meaningful drop in unemployment before we shipped out 11 million young men in warships? > > [File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) > > Am I completely nuts here? I won’t speak to your mental health, but your grasp of history is appallingly bad. When did the US enter World War II? Google it if you must. Then go look at your chart. I’ll give you a hint. What was the unemployment rate in December 1941? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/229 "2011-10-26T00:23:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Will all of you please look at this graph and tell me where in the hell is there a meaningful drop in unemployment before we shipped out 11 million young men in warships? > > [File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) > > Am I completely nuts here? I thought you were interested only in private sector employment? > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Private sector employment, especially in manufacturing, recovered to the level of the 1920s but failed to advance further until the war. From: [New Deal - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal) Here’s another graph, this time with total employment, excluding WPA and farm employment, but not adjusted for population growth. > **[File:US Employment Graph - 1920 to 1940.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Employment_Graph_-_1920_to_1940.svg)** > > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. The following page uses this file: > The following other wikis use this file: ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/230 "2011-10-26T00:37:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Will all of you please look at this graph and tell me where in the hell is there a meaningful drop in unemployment before we shipped out 11 million young men in warships? > > [File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) > > Am I completely nuts here? Just in case you are not getting the subtle hints, here is the breakdown of what that chart shows, without referring to any other source: Unemployment peaked in about 1934, then dropped significantly until 1937ish, went up again for a year or two, although not as high as it did before and went down from then until bottoming out at around 1945. What does this show? Considering that we did not ship out anyone until after December 1941, it shows that entering WWII was not what triggered the recovery. With a little more knowledge of history, what it shows was the New Deal was working quite well until it was scaled back in 1937 after Roosevelt alienated many of his allies by threatening to pack the Supreme Court. After that, it could be argued that either economy continued to recover at a slower pace, or that without the New Deal we were on the way back to depression until increased military spending picked up the slack (this would be Lend-Lease and the buildup, not sending troops overseas). ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/231 "2011-10-26T00:49:08Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > I won’t speak to your mental health, but your grasp of history is appallingly bad. When did the US enter World War II? Google it if you must. Then go look at your chart. I’ll give you a hint. What was the unemployment rate in December 1941? After careful reexamination of the chart… I stick with my initial finding. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/232 "2011-10-26T00:55:34Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Just in case you are not getting the subtle hints, here is the breakdown of what that chart shows, without referring to any other source: Unemployment peaked in about 1934, then dropped significantly until 1937ish, went up again for a year or two, although not as high as it did before and went down from then until bottoming out at around 1945. > > What does this show? Considering that we did not ship out anyone until after December 1941, it shows that entering WWII was not what triggered the recovery. > > With a little more knowledge of history, what it shows was the New Deal was working quite well until it was scaled back in 1937 after Roosevelt alienated many of his allies by threatening to pack the Supreme Court. After that, it could be argued that either economy continued to recover at a slower pace, or that without the New Deal we were on the way back to depression until increased military spending picked up the slack (this would be Lend-Lease and the buildup, not sending troops overseas). Of course there would be a short correction after you cut spending that’s pretty straightforward. I was using hyperbole when I said we shipped troops overseas. I’m well aware of the build up to WWII. FDR was doing everything he could to get us in the damn war. If his policies were causing such a great recovery why would he be itching to get in the thing? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/233 "2011-10-26T01:00:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I thought you were interested only in private sector employment? > > From: [New Deal - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal) > > Here’s another graph, this time with total employment, excluding WPA and farm employment, but not adjusted for population growth. > [File:US Employment Graph - 1920 to 1940.svg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Employment_Graph_-_1920_to_1940.svg) That graph does seem to contradict the one I posted so now I’m just confused. This discussion will have to continue at a later date so I can get this straight. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/234 "2011-10-26T01:02:30Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Ummm, 22% versus 14% is basically almost our entire current unemployment. Are you saying we don’t have meaningful unemployment currently? That is if you believe our unemployment is 9% ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/235 "2011-10-26T01:10:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > That is if you believe our unemployment is 9% You’re using an estimated chart. Do you have reason to believe that those retroactively estimated measurements are more accurate than the ones today that we are trying to measure as they occur? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/236 "2011-10-26T01:21:01Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > You’re using an estimated chart. Do you have reason to believe that those retroactively estimated measurements are more accurate than the ones today that we are trying to measure as they occur? I was being incredulous chill out bud. I have no reason to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/237 "2011-10-26T01:59:52Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > That graph does seem to contradict the one I posted so now I’m just confused. This discussion will have to continue at a later date so I can get this straight. I appreciate your candor. I look forward to further discussions on this. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/238 "2011-10-26T03:02:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > See why people reject Libertarianism? Its primary advocates cannot present any rationale arguments for it that make any sense. They work primarily in fantasy. Reminds me of that joke: > > > [@](#): > > > > There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. NITPICK: I think that’s more of an observation than a joke… ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/239 "2011-10-26T03:09:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Of course there would be a short correction after you cut spending that’s pretty straightforward. I was using hyperbole when I said we shipped troops overseas. I’m well aware of the build up to WWII. FDR was doing everything he could to get us in the damn war. If his policies were causing such a great recovery why would he be itching to get in the thing? Well, there was the whole “stopping the Nazis” thing… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/240 "2011-10-26T03:47:32Z")
The Nazis were job killers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/241 "2011-10-26T03:58:25Z")
Related to earlier posts, an [article](http://theamericanscholar.org/flacking-for-big-pharma/) on how pharmaceutical companies influence the content of medical journals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082.md?page=13)