# Ron Paul's Plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082 "2011-10-18T23:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/21 "2011-10-19T02:28:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The US will never produce enough oil for its own needs and even if it could, oil is a global commodity and it really doesn’t matter where it’s pumped. It does matter who we buy it from though. I don’t want money going to fund the Wahabbist movement or the Islamic Republic or Chavez. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/22 "2011-10-19T02:29:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It’s impossible to say the benefits outweigh the costs because government doesn’t operate on profits and losses. This is a nonsense objection. Costs and benefits are not only financial, so an idea has costs and benefits even if it doesn’t involve money in any way. My main objection to Paul is that I think his notions of how the government should be constructed are outmoded and have been so for a couple of generations. I’d be in favor of cutting the military budget and ending the war on drugs, for example, but consistently and for a long time, voters have opted for a government that provides greater services and does more to protect people’s rights than what Paul is advocating. That’s the choice people have made and I think that in general, it’s the correct choice. You can’t unring the bell, and even if you could, there’s no reason you should, particularly given the harm it would cause. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/23 "2011-10-19T02:45:42Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > The incredible naïveté of this sentence underscores how unrealistic the Paul “plan” is, and how the majority of his supporters’ ignorance borders on delusional. On the contrary, relying on a federal bureaucracy for medical advice instead of your doctor is the height of naïveté. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/24 "2011-10-19T02:50:29Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > On the contrary, relying on a federal bureaucracy for medical advice instead of your doctor is the height of naïveté. The FDA doesn’t give medical advice. It does not do patient consultations. It does not do anything your doctor does. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/25 "2011-10-19T02:55:18Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > On the contrary, relying on a federal bureaucracy for medical advice instead of your doctor is the height of naïveté. The incredible naïveté of this sentence underscores how unrealistic the Paul “plan” is, and how the majority of his supporters’ ignorance borders on delusional. (now with added :rolleyes:) Determining whether or not a drug is safe and effective for a particular use (among other things) requires a vastly different skill set than my doctor has at his disposal. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/26 "2011-10-19T02:57:05Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > He wants to end legal tender laws and allow the market to develop competing currencies instead of continuing to allow the fed to devalue the dollar and send it to foreign banks. 😕 What, you mean, let CitiBux float on the market against FargoDollars? You really think that’ll make currency values more **stable?!** ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/27 "2011-10-19T03:07:30Z")
“Competing currencies” is a euphemism. What Paul and his supporters mean is gold and silver coinage. They want us to go back to a precious metal economy. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/28 "2011-10-19T03:14:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > On the contrary, relying on a federal bureaucracy for medical advice instead of your doctor is the height of naïveté. You appear to be confused… about something. Ron Paul is a crazy old man. I wouldn’t let him change the tire on my van. He sure as shit shouldn’t be in charge of a military. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/29 "2011-10-19T03:19:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > “Competing currencies” is a euphemism. What Paul and his supporters mean is gold and silver coinage. They want us to go back to a precious metal economy. If something so tried-and-tested were a good idea, wouldn’t more countries be doing it? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/30 "2011-10-19T03:20:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If something so tried-and-tested were a good idea, wouldn’t more countries be doing it? Uh, socialism? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/31 "2011-10-19T03:38:46Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Yeah, he wants to replace a mostly stable, regulated system with a poorly defined experiment. Count this as another item against him. It’s not an experiment; it’s a method that we tried from the founding of the nation, and continued for over a century. It’s been demonstrated to be a failure. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/32 "2011-10-19T04:06:53Z")
An austerity program in this economic time would be a disaster. Cutting hundreds of thousands of government jobs and cutting government departments would be a horrible mistake. You can not cut your way out of this fiscal mess. Yet Paul is suggesting that and cutting corporate taxes at the same time. It would be terrible economics. His policies would cut demand. That is the engine of the economy. The one that gets ignored all the time. His graph is bullshit. His policies would greatly increase the debt and put us on a disastrous course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/33 "2011-10-19T04:13:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Uh, socialism? Are more countries doing it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/34 "2011-10-19T04:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “Competing currencies” is a euphemism. What Paul and his supporters mean is gold and silver coinage. They want us to go back to a precious metal economy. Ah, so he _does_ still want to put in 1000% inflation instantaneously by nationalizing the precious metals industry. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/35 "2011-10-19T05:12:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is a nonsense objection. Costs and benefits are not only financial, so an idea has costs and benefits even if it doesn’t involve money in any way. > > My main objection to Paul is that I think his notions of how the government should be constructed are outmoded and have been so for a couple of generations. I’d be in favor of cutting the military budget and ending the war on drugs, for example, but consistently and for a long time, voters have opted for a government that provides greater services and does more to protect people’s rights than what Paul is advocating. That’s the choice people have made and I think that in general, it’s the correct choice. You can’t unring the bell, and even if you could, there’s no reason you should, particularly given the harm it would cause. I meant costs and benefits would be possible to measure objectively. I realize voters have opted for an expanding government. Why do you think I’m conversing on this topic? I want them to change their mind. I happen to find an outmoded style of government more appealing than a modern authoritarian Government. I’m arguing that continuing on this path will cause more harm than changing course. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/36 "2011-10-19T05:15:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ah, so he _does_ still want to put in 1000% inflation instantaneously by nationalizing the precious metals industry. They wouldn’t nationalize it. He would allow private presses. You can’t inflate the weight of a metal. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/37 "2011-10-19T05:27:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I meant costs and benefits would be possible to measure objectively. That’s not always possible. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I realize voters have opted for an expanding government. Why do you think I’m conversing on this topic? I want them to change their mind. I happen to find an outmoded style of government more appealing than a modern authoritarian Government. No one’s “opted for an expanding government”. Liberal democracies provide services and protections that can’t or wouldn’t be provided otherwise, or at least not in a desirable way. Nobody wants to expand the government for the sake of expanding the government. This is one of the most ridiculous conservative/libertarian canards. Your "outmoded style of government " was tried and it didn’t work. And modern liberal democracies are considerably less “authoritarian” than any other type of government, ever. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m arguing that continuing on this path will cause more harm than changing course. Define “harm”. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/38 "2011-10-19T05:28:46Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It’s not an experiment; it’s a method that we tried from the founding of the nation, and continued for over a century. It’s been demonstrated to be a failure. The federal reserve was created in 1913. The dollar is currently at 4% of it’s original value in that year. That is a failure. The Great Depression started in 1929, we didn’t have a true recovery until after the war in '46. That is a failure. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/39 "2011-10-19T05:29:10Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They wouldn’t nationalize it. He would allow private presses. You can’t inflate the weight of a metal. It’s the amount of goods and service that that metal can buy that would get inflated. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/40 "2011-10-19T05:39:08Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > It’s the amount of goods and service that that metal can buy that would get inflated. So, you’re saying that inflation doesn’t make dollar bills physically smaller? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082.md?page=3)