# Ron Paul's Plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082 "2011-10-18T23:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/81 "2011-10-19T16:59:25Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Get real now. It is possible that a reputable third party company could provide that service. I’m not suggesting people troll the SDMB for advice. > > If they don’t have access their doctor most likely does. Whatever the case may be, information is more widespread than in the days before the FDA. Do you see these third parties for drugs as something equivalent to the financial ratings agencies we have today? If so, no thanks… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/82 "2011-10-19T17:00:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I am sure the boom (you meant boom, not boon, right?) had everything to do with the budget cuts and nothing to do with the end of World War II. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Shame on him for relying on the tenants of Austrian economics in practice while espousing their merits to the public. He probably also meant “tenets” instead of “tenants.” ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/83 "2011-10-19T17:01:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’d be curious to see a concise factual discussion of the “competing currency” idea Paul envisions to “strengthen the dollar and stabilize inflation.” Is he thinking of gold certificates? Foreign exchange baskets? (I’ll confess I find the idea bizarre and wrong in too many ways to summarize here. It might be a good solution to some problem, but not a problem relevant to today’s U.S.) > > I am **not** asking for a link to yet another screed about deficit spending, etc. I’d just be curious to see a concise and sober description of how the “competing currency” might actually operate. How is this? > **[Ron Paul's Competing Currencies - LewRockwell](https://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/01/peter-brimelow/ron-pauls-competing-currencies/)** > > DIGG THIS OK, I admit it: I tend to be early. The idea of private money – often referred to as "competing currencies" – has always fascinated me. I persuaded Jim Michaels, the late, great editor of Forbes Magazine, to let me translate the... ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/84 "2011-10-19T17:10:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Get real now. It is possible that a reputable third party company could provide that service. And of course that reputable third party company will dole out that information for free to poor people out of the goodness of their bottom lines, right? > [@](#): > > If they don’t have access their doctor most likely does. Whatever the case may be, information is more widespread than in the days before the FDA. Again with your Stepford vision of how everybody exists. You know who my doctor is? Whoever’s on call at the ER if I get sick – ok, that’s not true for me (as I can afford insurance that lets me see a doctor if I need to), but it’s true for millions of people in this country. Not to mention that you’re advocating a replacement for the FDA with companies that will compete in the free market. That information should not be competed for. It should be provided for the well-being of the American people, not for ledger sheets up and down Wall Street. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/85 "2011-10-19T17:20:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I am sure the boom (you meant boom, not boon, right?) had everything to do with the budget cuts and nothing to do with the end of World War II. Yes. While we’re at it, let’s not forget the opposite also happened: the economy started to recover before the war, and when Roosevelt responded by cutting spending, it sank again. It is also not true that there was no economic recovery until the war. There was no economic recovery until after the war. Not much more I can say about that. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/86 "2011-10-19T17:21:51Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And of course that reputable third party company will dole out that information for free to poor people out of the goodness of their bottom lines, right? > > Again with your Stepford vision of how everybody exists. You know who my doctor is? Whoever’s on call at the ER if I get sick – ok, that’s not true for me (as I can afford insurance that lets me see a doctor if I need to), but it’s true for millions of people in this country. > > Not to mention that you’re advocating a replacement for the FDA with companies that will compete in the free market. That information should not be competed for. It should be provided for the well-being of the American people, not for ledger sheets up and down Wall Street. If you’re argument is that the FDA have a desire to provide protection for the consumer I don’t know what more I can say. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/87 "2011-10-19T17:27:16Z")
From the [FDA’s website](http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparency/Basics/ucm192695.htm): “The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health by assuring the safety, effectiveness, and security of human and veterinary drugs, vaccines and other biological products, medical devices, our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, dietary supplements, and products that give off radiation.” Who do you think they’re protecting? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/88 "2011-10-19T17:29:31Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There was no economic recovery until after the war. Not much more I can say about that. The economy was recovering in the mid-'30s and went into a recession again when FDR cut spending in 1937. The economy began to recover again in 1938 and showed signs of improvement through the start of the war. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If you’re argument is that the FDA have a desire to provide protection for the consumer I don’t know what more I can say. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/89 "2011-10-19T17:34:11Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You seem to have a decent grasp of how corporations operate, but you seem to be blanking on the role of the actuary and the attorney. > > If a drug company produces a drug on which they can make a profit of $10 billion, but the actuary and the attorney pop in to tell them that when the drug starts killing grandmas all across the country, they’ll end up shelling out $2 billion in settlements … guess what? > > That’s right, the price of a bottle Fuckitol goes up by $5 to cover the cost, and Dr. CEO gets another yacht. Even here, you’re assuming a lot. I think the actual conversation would be something like this: “Well, we’ve completed the tests and determined our new drug is helpful in treating this condition. We’re ready to go to market.” “Did we test for possible harmful side-effects?” “How much would testing for harmful side-effects cost?” “Several million dollars.” “And would discovering harmful side-effects increase the sales of our product?” “Obviously not.” “And are we required by law to test for harmful side-effects?” “Not since the Paul administration.” “So do you think we tested for harmful side-effects?” “I was just checking. Like you said, we’re ready to go to market. We want to be able to say there are no known harmful side-effects.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/90 "2011-10-19T17:34:54Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If you’re argument is that the FDA have a desire to provide protection for the consumer I don’t know what more I can say. Do tell us what you think the researchers, investigators, lab techs and other employees of the FDA “desire” to do. I’ll make it easier for you, with a specific example. Read about the FDA’s role in tracking the source of the [E. coli outbreak](http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm094555.htm) in fresh produce in 2006, minimizing public exposure and working to develop plans to limit future outbreaks. Then explain how this is something other than the FDA’s providing protection for the consumer, as well as how Ron Paul’s FDA-less future will improve matters. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/91 "2011-10-19T17:42:49Z")
I think the point **WillFarnaby** is trying to make (and by all means, please correct me if I’m wrong) is that any entity that is faced with competition from another entity will be inspired to produce work of a higher quality. By making the FDA federally funded, they have no market competition and thus are not inspired to be as thorough and efficient in their research as they could be. Also, just as a point of curiosity, why do you guys think that all these things need to be dealt with on the federal level? Dr. Paul proposed to eliminate these five Cabinet-level agencies: Commerce, Education, Energy, Housing and Urban Development, and Interior. This does not at all mean that he’s going to eliminate commerce, education, etc. It merely means that these issues will be either privatized or addressed at the state level. Why is federal control so much better than privatization or decentralization? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/92 "2011-10-19T17:47:38Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > I think the point **WillFarnaby** is trying to make (and by all means, please correct me if I’m wrong) is that any entity that is faced with competition from another entity will be inspired to produce work of a higher quality. By making the FDA federally funded, they have no market competition and thus are not inspired to be as thorough and efficient in their research as they could be. He hasn’t said that. He’s said the FDA gets between people and their doctors (which it does only insofar as it can approve or not approve drugs), and that people should have the option to take Poisonex if that’s what they want. For the most part, the FDA does not do research. It evaluates research that companies do in support of their own drugs and surgical tools and such. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/93 "2011-10-19T18:10:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He hasn’t said that. He’s said the FDA gets between people and their doctors (which it does only insofar as it can approve or not approve drugs), and that people should have the option to take Poisonex if that’s what they want. For the most part, the FDA does not do research. It evaluates research that companies do in support of their own drugs and surgical tools and such. That is a byproduct of the point I was making in defending Paul’s plan to cut FDA funding. I think the FDA does a poor job in fulfilling it’s mission statement and a private company would have the incentive to do a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/94 "2011-10-19T18:25:49Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I think the FDA does a poor job in fulfilling it’s mission statement and a private company would have the incentive to do a better job. I eagerly await your explanation of how that’s going to happen and your response to the pitfalls I pointed out in post #68. The FDA has its problems, but they’re not because it lacks the _incentive_ to do a good job. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/95 "2011-10-19T18:32:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I eagerly await your explanation of how that’s going to happen and your response to the pitfalls I pointed out in post #68. The FDA has its problems, but they’re not because it lacks the _incentive_ to do a good job. So what is their incentive? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/96 "2011-10-19T18:38:35Z")
If you’re argument is that the FDA can’t provide protection for the consumer unless there’s a monetary payoff involved, then I don’t know what more I can say. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/97 "2011-10-19T18:42:24Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > So what is their incentive? Their incentive is making sure products are properly vetted so they can help people and preventing dangerous ones from hurting people. The whole idea of regulating is that you want the industry to work as best as possible for the people who need its products, not just the people who make money from selling those products. There is overlap between those goals, but they can come into conflict, which is where there is a use for a strong, impartial third party. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/98 "2011-10-19T18:56:38Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > If you’re argument is that the FDA can’t provide protection for the consumer unless there’s a monetary payoff involved, then I don’t know what more I can say. I’m not arguing that. I am saying that the incentive to do good for the sake of doing good is probably not as motivational as they incentive to do a good job because otherwise you might lose your job and go out of business. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/99 "2011-10-19T19:02:50Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > I’m not arguing that. I am saying that the incentive to do good for the sake of doing good is probably not as motivational as they incentive to do a good job because otherwise you might lose your job and go out of business. You’re right. From the standpoint of consumers, an agency that is tasked with protecting consumers has less incentive to do a good job than a company that has to balance protecting consumers with pleasing shareholders by meeting its profit and sales targets. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082/100 "2011-10-19T19:07:08Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > I’m not arguing that. I am saying that the incentive to do good for the sake of doing good is probably not as motivational as they incentive to do a good job because otherwise you might lose your job and go out of business. The recent banking fiasco had oodles of financial incentives, the result wasn’t pretty. What about the incentive to do bad for the big bucks? Corruption is what will result, not doing good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ron-pauls-plan/600082.md?page=6)