# Ronald Reagan was a white supremacist (new Reagan-Nixon tape) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923 "2019-07-31T11:48:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/181 "2019-08-04T19:56:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In every other aspect of society when we can find a group of people who share similar characteristics, we are permitted to take action based upon that. Several examples: 1) We prohibit ex felons from owning guns, no matter how non-violent, how long ago, or if they have demonstrated reform, 2) Some employers will not hire people with bad credit because of the idea that they have made poor life decisions, even if the person is in medical debt, or just has a bad knack for finances and your job is not a financial one. Those are both about actions the person has performed in the past, not who they are. And past actions are the best predictors of future actions. An ex-felon has committed a felony, so we keep them away from guns lest they commit another one with those guns. Someone with bad credit have made purchases they were unable\* to pay for in a timely manner. It makes sense to assume they may continue such practices. But race is different. No action has occurred. Race is an immutable characteristic of a person, due to who one’s biological parents are. And, as a society, we have decided it is wrong to treat people differently due to these immutable characteristics. This is due to the concept of reciprocity, which informs many morals. I don’t want to be thought of as a bigot because I’m white. So I don’t assume people are criminals because they are black. The number of bigoted white people or criminal black people is irrelevant to that calculation. Assuming that criminals might do more crime or that defaulters might default again is completely different than thinking black people you see are criminals, no matter what reason someone might give for that belief. * * * All that said, I must issue a frame challenge. What statistics are you talking about? Because I can find no statistics indicating that greater than 50% of the black population are criminals, and such a claim doesn’t pass the sniff test. Prisons aren’t big enough to have housed 50% of the black population. And while there may be criminals who failed to get caught, there aren’t that many. No, like every other race, any black person you meet is far more likely not to be a criminal than to be one. To assume otherwise must be based on racist stereotypes. \*While it is indeed an injustice that unpaid debt may be due to medical debt, the problem there is the medical debt. We shouldn’t have a form of debt that causes so many people to default through no fault of their own. Hence the need for other solutions to healthcare that don’t bankrupt people and cost the taxpayers anyways. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/182 "2019-08-06T17:39:09Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Don’t you people (where you work, not Roma in general) bother to learn each other’s last names? > > Weird. Last names aren’t necessarily great for identification unless everyone is wearing large name tags. We have I.D., but you have to get fairly close to read it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/183 "2019-08-06T17:46:55Z")
So you all can learn first names just fine, but last names are impractical? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/184 "2019-08-06T20:04:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So you all can learn first names just fine, but last names are impractical? Most last names (or first and last name combinations) aren’t that descriptive and frequently impractical for distinguishing between people with similar names or jobs. I can tell someone to go check with Will Miller in FMC and they will still have to look around and ask more questions than if I tell them to go check with Will Miller in FMC, he’s the tall black guy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/185 "2019-08-06T20:13:01Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Most last names (or first and last name combinations) aren’t that descriptive and frequently impractical for distinguishing between people with similar names or jobs. I can tell someone to go check with Will Miller in FMC and they will still have to look around and ask more questions than if I tell them to go check with Will Miller in FMC, he’s the tall black guy. If he was white, would you call him “the tall white guy”? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/186 "2019-08-06T22:00:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he was white, would you call him “the tall white guy”? If, he had a co-worker with the same name who was a tall, black (or brown or Asian) guy. of course. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/187 "2019-08-06T22:17:15Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If, he had a co-worker with the same name who was a tall, black (or brown or Asian) guy. of course. And if they were both white, you’re just out of luck? Maybe if one of them is standing next to a woman with big breasts, you can point them out that way. I assume that where you work, you like to think that having big breasts is not something that should make someone feel uncomfortable, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/188 "2019-08-07T04:43:19Z")
I imagine it would take a long time to get used to. Wouldn’t happen suddenly, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/189 "2019-08-07T11:11:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he was white, would you call him “the tall white guy”? FWIW, I make a conscious effort to do so. Colorblindness does nobody any favors, and yeah, skin color is a really easy physical descriptor that doesn’t veer into the creepiness of sexual leering. And I figure white supremacy thrives on white invisibility, keeping whiteness as the default state that doesn’t merit a mention. Many of my black coworkers & students aren’t shy about using “white” as a simple descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/190 "2019-08-07T14:53:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > skin color is a really easy physical descriptor that doesn’t veer into the creepiness of sexual leering. I’m not as comfortable making that determination for someone else. I know that, as a white guy, I will not mind being called, “The white guy over there.”, but I know for a fact that there is at least one black person I know that strongly resents being referred to as “The black guy over there.” As I don’t know whether or not a particular individual minds being referred to by the distinguishing characteristic that makes them a minority, I find it easiest to just avoid doing so. The vast majority of people who are not appreciative of being referred to by their skin color will not tell you this, but rather, just take it as just one more reminder of their otherness that they get throughout the day. Do you consider referring to a woman as having big breasts to be sexual leering? I’m not telling them to leer at her breasts, but rather, just using them as an easy distinguishing characteristic. If you refer to someone by their skin color, you are not, I presume, asking them to leer at their skin or to form any judgments on it. > [@](#): > > And I figure white supremacy thrives on white invisibility, keeping whiteness as the default state that doesn’t merit a mention. Which is why the pushback, as, while you may consciously make an effort to always mention someone’s skin color when referring to them, many do not, and only make mention when the skin color is something different from the norm. > [@](#): > > Many of my black coworkers & students aren’t shy about using “white” as a simple descriptor. And they shouldn’t be. As they are probably used to being pointed out by using their skin color as their most distinguishing characteristic, they would have no reason not to return the favor. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/191 "2019-08-08T13:42:13Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m not as comfortable making that determination for someone else. I know that, as a white guy, I will not mind being called, “The white guy over there.”, but I know for a fact that there is at least one black person I know that strongly resents being referred to as “The black guy over there.” The question is whether I’d refer to someone as “the tall white guy.” I know that using “black” as a reference can carry baggage. Using “white” as a reference is, IMO, one way to lessen that baggage. > [@](#): > > Do you consider referring to a woman as having big breasts to be sexual leering? I’m not telling them to leer at her breasts, but rather, just using them as an easy distinguishing characteristic. If you refer to someone by their skin color, you are not, I presume, asking them to leer at their skin or to form any judgments on it. I mean, it’s socially inappropriate. I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth on the subject. It just is, and I won’t pretend I’m some sort of computer unable to take into account social norms. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/192 "2019-08-08T14:19:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The question is whether I’d refer to someone as “the tall white guy.” I know that using “black” as a reference can carry baggage. Using “white” as a reference is, IMO, one way to lessen that baggage. If you are referring only to white guys by their skin color, that’s kinda amusing, and I can get behind that. But I don’t see how it lessens the impact of a person of color constantly being singled out due to it. > [@](#): > > I mean, it’s socially inappropriate. I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth on the subject. It just is, and I won’t pretend I’m some sort of computer unable to take into account social norms. I get that. What I am saying is that I have seen that referring to someone by their minority status can be hurtful, and I find it to be inappropriate, equivalently inappropriate as referring to someone by their secondary sexual characteristics. I agree that it isn’t socially inappropriate yet, and I wish to help to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/193 "2019-08-08T14:25:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you are referring only to white guys by their skin color, that’s kinda amusing, and I can get behind that. But I don’t see how it lessens the impact of a person of color constantly being singled out due to it. I certainly don’t either. That’s not an argument I was making. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/194 "2019-08-08T15:28:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I certainly don’t either. That’s not an argument I was making. I thought that was what you said, that referring to white people by their skin color reduces the baggage. You are saying that you only refer to white people by their skin color, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/195 "2019-08-08T19:05:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Ronald Reagan's Racist Conversation With Richard Nixon - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/) > > Should we be surprised? Anyone want to take a crack at excusing or defending Reagan? > > The hatefulness isn’t new. It’s just more out in the open with Trump. But it’s been there, in the mainstream of the Republican party (and elsewhere, of course), for half a century or more. That’s pretty racist. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anyone alive at the time. But white supremacy is a bit more specific isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/196 "2019-08-08T19:18:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That’s pretty racist. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anyone alive at the time. But white supremacy is a bit more specific isn’t it? That has been discussed thoroughly in the thread. You might disagree, but I think “white supremacism” fits for statements that clearly intend to indicate that African people are inferior. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/197 "2019-08-08T19:45:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That has been discussed thoroughly in the thread. You might disagree, but I think “white supremacism” fits for statements that clearly intend to indicate that African people are inferior. Personally, I find his comment proof that he is a racist, but only evidence towards him being a white supremacist. They certainly do not rule out that he is one, but I’d need to see at least a few more examples before I’d be willing to make a ruling. If you would consider “white man’s burden” to be white supremacy (and I don’t know that I do, but I certainly lean towards it), then that would be how I see those comments most fit. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/198 "2019-08-08T20:20:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That has been discussed thoroughly in the thread. You might disagree, but I think “white supremacism” fits for statements that clearly intend to indicate that African people are inferior. African people, or black people? The terms are not synonymous. It’s perfectly possible to believe that people from some underdeveloped nation across the world are inferior to your own countrymen without believing in racial supremacy; that’s pretty much the definition of xenophobia, e.g. What is the evidence that Reagan’s opinion of them was based solely or principally on the color of their skin, as opposed to their cultural milieu, the history of the countries from which they came, their socioeconomic backgrounds, their political beliefs, etc.? I don’t mean to defend Reagan; he had some nasty attitudes. However, you are seeing a “clear” indication of white supremacy whereas I see only a clear indication of disrespect for people who were different from him, with the differences being more than just race. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/199 "2019-08-08T20:21:33Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > I will never vote for Ronald Reagan again!!! > > Anyone else remember LBJ’s favorite saying about black Americans? (though he liked to use another word to refer to them) “All those n\*\*\*\*\*s want is a loose pair of shoes, a tight piece of ass and a warm place to take a shit.” I’m pretty sure that was Earl Butz, who said it to Pat Boone of all people. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923/200 "2019-08-08T20:49:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That has been discussed thoroughly in the thread. You might disagree, but I think “white supremacism” fits for statements that clearly intend to indicate that African people are inferior. OK, then what is the difference between a racist and a white supremecist? Or are the terms interchangeable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagan-was-a-white-supremacist-new-reagan-nixon-tape/837923.md?page=11)