# Ronald Reagan's Birthday **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948 "2010-02-06T20:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/261 "2010-03-13T05:00:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Prove it. I contend China would likely have industrialized anyway - all it took was Mao and crew to peg off, really. Maybe but than Americans will have no investment in China-it’s more reward to the Euros or Japan or whoever invests in it. > [@](#): > > But once again, this is still a Fallacious Argument. Tell that to Namibia, Angola, Zimbabwe, Mozambique - hell, since the mad fuckers developed nukes and probably could have developed missiles too, tell that to the entire world. > > Not that that has anything to do with whether what they did was morally right, at all. Stop evading issues. If South Africa had developed nukes they would have to be utterly mad and idiotic to use it since as Heinlein pointed out in one of his essays America, USSR, and China would rain utter destruction upon them. > [@](#): > > In the same numbers as in the Bush War? Cite? [http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Number\_of\_cholera\_death\_in\_Zimbabwe\_surpasses\_4,000](http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Number_of_cholera_death_in_Zimbabwe_surpasses_4,000) > [@](#): > > According to a report released by the United Nations’ World Health Organisation (WHO), over four thousand people have died from cholera in Zimbabwe, while 89,000 total cases of the disease have been reported. A spokeswoman for the WHO, however, said that the real death toll is higher due to under-reporting because of difficulty reaching certain areas of the country. > > The cholera outbreak has been blamed on the collapse of the country’s health infrastructure and water systems. Just one epidemic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/262 "2010-03-13T06:42:42Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe but than Americans will have no investment in China-it’s more reward to the Euros or Japan or whoever invests in it. So you \*admit \*it - America’s economic self-interest, not concern for the Chinese, is the driving factor. > [@](#): > > If South Africa had developed nukes they would have to be utterly mad and idiotic to use it since as Heinlein pointed out in one of his essays America, USSR, and China would rain utter destruction upon them. Funny - South Africa \*did \*develop nukes, no international action of any sort followed. Hell, we likely gave them to/developed them with Israel, who still retain theirs. So the Apartheid government exported WMDs, of all three of the ChemBioNuclear types. \*Brown \*people countries like Iraq get invaded and occupied for that. South Africa gets “constructive engagement” (Yes, clearly that Newspeak re-arranger was kept very busy by the US govt) And if we _had used them, it would have been on another African country - I doubt very much a rain of fire would have followed. Rwanda, DRC, Biafra, Darfur, Mozambique, Angola etbloody_cetera all serve as my cite. > [@](#): > > [http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Number\_of\_cholera\_death\_in\_Zimbabwe\_surpasses\_4,000](http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Number_of_cholera_death_in_Zimbabwe_surpasses_4,000)Just one epidemic. Funny, I could have \*sworn \*I was specifically referring to \*your \*reference to "The MDC’s supporters, white farmers, and their black workers have constantly been attacked and killed. ":dubious: Cholera has fuck all to do with that, unless you’re contending that Mugabe is \*deliberately \*introducing it into the water. Which, BTW, \*was \*one of the diseases the Rhodesian Govt used. Please try and focus on the argument you’re actually having, not the one you’d like to have. We were comparing the **Rhodesians deliberately killing people** with **Mugabe deliberately killing people**. If you \*want \*to argue about the , oh, let’s call it “collateral damage”, I’m sure I can start referencing the devastation the Bush War left on the country for you. But that’s a different argument for now, so do keep up, dear boy. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/263 "2010-03-13T17:27:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So you \*admit \*it - America’s economic self-interest, not concern for the Chinese, is the driving factor. Both are factors. If it benefits both America and China it’s a win-win situation. > [@](#): > > Funny - South Africa \*did \*develop nukes, no international action of any sort followed. Hell, we likely gave them to/developed them with Israel, who still retain theirs. So the Apartheid government exported WMDs, of all three of the ChemBioNuclear types. \*Brown \*people countries like Iraq get invaded and occupied for that. South Africa gets “constructive engagement” (Yes, clearly that Newspeak re-arranger was kept very busy by the US govt) I meant if they used nukes. > [@](#): > > Funny, I could have \*sworn \*I was specifically referring to \*your \*reference to "The MDC’s supporters, white farmers, and their black workers have constantly been attacked and killed. ":dubious: Cholera has fuck all to do with that, unless you’re contending that Mugabe is \*deliberately \*introducing it into the water. Which, BTW, \*was \*one of the diseases the Rhodesian Govt used. > > Please try and focus on the argument you’re actually having, not the one you’d like to have. We were comparing the **Rhodesians deliberately killing people** with **Mugabe deliberately killing people**. If you \*want \*to argue about the , oh, let’s call it “collateral damage”, I’m sure I can start referencing the devastation the Bush War left on the country for you. But that’s a different argument for now, so do keep up, dear boy. No Mugabe did not delibrately use cholera but his idiotic economic policies have led to the conditions right for a cholera epidemic. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Zimbabwe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zimbabwe) > [@](#): > > Although many whites had left Zimbabwe after independence, mainly for neighboring South Africa, those who remained continued to wield disproportionate control of some sectors of the economy, especially agriculture. In the late-1990s whites accounted for less than 1% of the population but owned 70% of arable land. Mugabe raised this issue of land ownership by white farmers. In a calculated move, he began forcible land redistribution, which brought the government into headlong conflict with the International Monetary Fund. Amid a severe drought in the region, the police and military were instructed not to stop the invasion of white-owned farms by the so-called ‘war veterans’ and youth militia. This has led to a mass migration of White Rhodesians out of Zimbabwe. At present almost no arable land is in the possession of white farmers; the country has also experienced a debilitating food shortage with the exodus of its White minority, turning the “breadbasket of Africa” into one of Africa’s most food insecure states. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/264 "2010-03-14T09:36:32Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Both are factors. If it benefits both America and China it’s a win-win situation. You have only demonstrated the first benefit. You have failed to show the positive for the Chinese as motivation. And it’s all still irrelevant to Apartheid. > [@](#): > > I meant if they used nukes. Like I said - South Africa could have left the cities of half-a-dozen other African countries as smoking craters and no-one in the West or Russia would have done squat. Firstly, because the great Powers have only ever shown concern for what they can get from Africa. Secondly, because if SA had that ability, MAD comes into effect with any other nuclear players. Thirdly - minority government means the powerless majority make great human shields. > [@](#): > > No Mugabe did not delibrately use cholera but his idiotic economic policies have led to the conditions right for a cholera epidemic. So like I intimated - the Fallacy of False Equivalence. Irrelevant to my point. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/265 "2010-03-14T23:46:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You have only demonstrated the first benefit. You have failed to show the positive for the Chinese as motivation. China is thriving economically, a new middle class is booming, and etc. > [@](#): > > And it’s all still irrelevant to Apartheid.Like I said - South Africa could have left the cities of half-a-dozen other African countries as smoking craters and no-one in the West or Russia would have done squat. Firstly, because the great Powers have only ever shown concern for what they can get from Africa. Secondly, because if SA had that ability, MAD comes into effect with any other nuclear players. Thirdly - minority government means the powerless majority make great human shields. Great Powers do care if nuclear weapons are used-why else are they so worried about North Korea and Iran? If South Africa actually used nukes they are determined. > [@](#): > > So like I intimated - the Fallacy of False Equivalence. Irrelevant to my point. Than is it false equivalence to blame Stalin for the famines caused by the destruction of the kulaks? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/266 "2010-03-15T05:20:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > China is thriving economically, a new middle class is booming, and etc. For the last time (hopefully) - you have to show that that is a deliberate reason for the policy, not a _post hoc_ excuse. And once again - even if this were the case, it would still have squat to do with Reagan and South Africa. **The Apartheid government is not the current Chinese government**. Defending the current US policy to the latter **in no way** excuses engagement with the latter. Completely different circumstances, completely different (in fact, opposite) motivations: “We need an ally \*against \*the Commies” vs “We need to ally \*with \*these Commies (and their factories)” > [@](#): > > Great Powers do care if nuclear weapons are used-why else are they so worried about North Korea and Iran? Because North Korea is within striking range of Japan, South Korea, the Chinese factories and even parts of America. Similarly, Iran is within range of Israel & Europe. American/Western self-interest, again. South Africa, on the other hand, was only really a threat to a bunch of brown people. > [@](#): > > If South Africa actually used nukes they are determined. Please. We actually tested our nukes and no-one said word one until years later. Nor have we ever been censured for exporting WMDs. America only cares when its own ox is being gored. > [@](#): > > Than is it false equivalence to blame Stalin for the famines caused by the destruction of the kulaks? What? No, it’s false equivalence to conflate deliberate and direct murder with disastrous social policies. Unless you contend that the social policies were \*\*mostly \*\*and \*\*deliberately \*\*done to cause the deaths in the first place, which I don’t think even Mao has been accused of. Listen, I’m not quibbling over who killed more people, I’m talking about deliberate murder here. Intent, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/267 "2010-03-17T02:30:28Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > For the last time (hopefully) - you have to show that that is a deliberate reason for the policy, not a _post hoc_ excuse. As a realist I care more about what actually happens rather than abstract reasons. > [@](#): > > "Because North Korea is within striking range of Japan, South Korea, the Chinese factories and even parts of America. Similarly, Iran is within range of Israel & Europe. American/Western self-interest, again. > South Africa, on the other hand, was only really a threat to a bunch of brown people. You don’t think the USSR would care or the PRC? > [@](#): > > Please. We actually tested our nukes and no-one said word one until years later. Nor have we ever been censured for exporting WMDs. America only cares when its own ox is being gored Testing our nukes and using it on a population as a weapons are two different things. > [@](#): > > What? No, it’s false equivalence to conflate deliberate and direct murder with disastrous social policies. Unless you contend that the social policies were \*\*mostly \*\*and \*\*deliberately \*\*done to cause the deaths in the first place, which I don’t think even Mao has been accused of. > > Listen, I’m not quibbling over who killed more people, I’m talking about deliberate murder here. Intent, you know? Once again I care about results more than abstract reasons. For instance while the Rhodesians may have delibrately murdered several hundred people that’s small potatoes to how many people have died due to Mugabe’s foolish policies. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/268 "2010-03-17T02:36:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Once again I care about results more than abstract reasons. Can we apply that same rationale to the U.S. invasion of Iraq? How does the number of innocent Iraqis killed as “collateral damage” compare to the number of Americans deliberately killed by terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/269 "2010-03-17T03:03:59Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > As a realist I care more about what actually happens rather than abstract reasons. Say the guy that constantly pushes hypothetical points and assumes that they can override more realistically based ones. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/270 "2010-03-17T16:00:17Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > As a realist I care more about what actually happens rather than abstract reasons. Which has what to do with anything? I’m talking about the _actual reasons_ for US involvement in the PRC - pure economics. YOU were the one who advanced an abstract reason of encouraging democracy. > [@](#): > > You don’t think the USSR would care or the PRC? No, neither would have cared. > [@](#): > > Testing our nukes and using it on a population as a weapons are two different things. Tell that to Iran, Pakistan, North Korea. America sure seems to care about the having of nukes just as much as the using of them. And that doesn’t address the far bigger issue of Pretoria being an ACTIVE exporter and user of all kinds of WMDs. Remind me - what was the reasoning behind invading Iraq, again? So how come for Reagan, the WMD-mongers were his best pals? Oh yeah, I forgot, Reagan [got on just fine with Saddam](http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/), too.:dubious: > [@](#): > > Once again I care about results more than abstract reasons. For instance while the Rhodesians may have delibrately murdered several hundred people that’s small potatoes to how many people have died due to Mugabe’s foolish policies. This would only not be a foolish argument if the ones killed by bio-weapons were the only ones the Rhodesian government killed. You don’t get to compare everyone who died under Mugabe with just those hundreds. You have to compare them to \*\*everyone \*\*they killed in the[Bush War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Bush_War), or [as a direct result](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Civil_War) of the Bush War. Let me tell you, that isn’t “small potatoes”. It’s almost a million people dead and millions more displaced, just because some Whites tried to buck the winds of change. And you’re defending their actions as “small potatoes”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/271 "2010-03-19T06:11:03Z")
Is it spring break or something? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/272 "2010-03-19T14:37:38Z")
What, you think **Curtis** is sitting on Daytona Beach clucking his tongue in disapproval at the drunken scantily clad coeds frolicking in the surf? Hmmm. If anybody needs me, I’ll be in Daytona. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/273 "2010-03-20T03:17:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Which has what to do with anything? I’m talking about the _actual reasons_ for US involvement in the PRC - pure economics. YOU were the one who advanced an abstract reason of encouraging democracy I meant in the indirect sense. > [@](#): > > Tell that to Iran, Pakistan, North Korea. America sure seems to care about the having of nukes just as much as the using of them. Iran and North Korea will export these nukes and/or cannot be trusted to have those weapons responsibly. > [@](#): > > Remind me - what was the reasoning behind invading Iraq, again? So how come for Reagan, the WMD-mongers were his best pals? > > Oh yeah, I forgot, Reagan [got on just fine with Saddam](http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/), too.:dubious:This would only not be a foolish argument if the ones killed by bio-weapons were the only ones the Rhodesian government killed. You don’t get to compare everyone who died under Mugabe with just those hundreds. You have to compare them to \*\*everyone \*\*they killed in the[Bush War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Bush_War), or [as a direct result](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Civil_War) of the Bush War. Let me tell you, that isn’t “small potatoes”. It’s almost a million people dead and millions more displaced, just because some Whites tried to buck the winds of change. And you’re defending their actions as “small potatoes”. :rolleyes: And the ZANU-PF launched their own atrocities according to your own link including killing blacks who worked on white farms. Also most of the casualties you cited comes from the Mozambique Civil War ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/274 "2010-03-20T06:46:59Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I meant in the indirect sense. I think you meant in the irrelevant sense, then. > [@](#): > > Iran and North Korea will export these nukes and/or cannot be trusted to have those weapons responsibly. Did you miss where SA likely exported its nuke technology and \*definitely \*did export its other WMD tech? > [@](#): > > And the ZANU-PF launched their own atrocities according to your own link including killing blacks who worked on white farms. Aaah, my old friend, tu quoque, I wondered where you’d gone. > [@](#): > > Also most of the casualties you cited comes from the Mozambique Civil War Which was started and funded by first the Rhodesians and then the Apartheid Government. So all those death are at their hands, by your own logic. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/275 "2010-03-20T15:15:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Did you miss where SA likely exported its nuke technology and \*definitely \*did export its other WMD tech? Yes and that’s a good reason against South Africa but again we haven’t invaded North Korea or Iran. > [@](#): > > Which was started and funded by first the Rhodesians and then the Apartheid Government. So all those death are at their hands, by your own logic. Except they were Mozambicans who were waging civil war. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/276 "2010-03-20T19:07:15Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Yes and that’s a good reason against South Africa but again we haven’t invaded North Korea or Iran. …and no one was asking you to invade Apartheid South Africa, either, just stop aiding the racist despots and aid the oppressed majority instead. Sheesh, is “invade” the American RW’s first answer for _everything_? > [@](#): > > Except they were Mozambicans who were waging civil war. A “civil war” that would not have been fought at all _without the Rhodesians_ funding, training AND allowing the rebels to be based in their country. Get that? If the \*Rhodesians \*hadn’t started it, there would have been no civil war, no RENAMO, no 900 000 dead. Theirs is the blame. Payback for FRELIMO support of ZANU-PF. That and general anti-Communism, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/277 "2010-03-21T22:47:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …and no one was asking you to invade Apartheid South Africa, either, just stop aiding the racist despots and aid the oppressed majority instead. Which we ended up doing and again let me repeat: I would have opposed President Reagan supporting Apartheid South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/278 "2010-03-22T10:13:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Which we ended up doing No thanks to Reagan and his active opposition. > [@](#): > > and again let me repeat: I would have opposed President Reagan supporting Apartheid South Africa. …but you have no problem making excuses for him after the fact, rather than admit the truth - the man was a nutjob racist. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/279 "2010-03-24T03:17:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No thanks to Reagan and his active opposition. > …but you have no problem making excuses for him after the fact, rather than admit the truth - the man was a nutjob racist. Supporting South Africa=/=Racist. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/280 "2010-03-24T05:28:10Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Supporting South Africa=/=Racist. Supporting South Africa = condoning racism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948.md?page=15)