# Ronald Reagan's Birthday **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948 "2010-02-06T20:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/121 "2010-02-10T01:35:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well had he launched a pre-emptive military strike we might have killed a whole bunch of Al-Qaeda people. And if Bush & Co. had listened to warnings, we might not have had the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil under his watch. Clinton has nothing to do with Reagan being a horrible president. Reagan did more to fuck the middle and lower class in this country than anyone else I can think of. And I was there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/122 "2010-02-10T01:38:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > And possibly many more innocent civilians. Maybe but it was worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/123 "2010-02-10T01:43:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe but it was worth the risk. Well, thank goodness we’ve gotten rid of witch burning and human sacrifice then. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/124 "2010-02-10T01:49:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Reagan quadrupled the National Debt under his pregnancy. NO HE DID NOT. I won’t even bother asking for a cite. I’ll just give you the real numbers, seen in [this graph](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms), which is sourced to the White House’s 2011 budget document: As a percentage of GDP, Reagan increased the debt from 33.4% to 51.9% over 8 years. In nominal dollars, he increased the debt by 1.7 Trillion dollars, from a starting point of about 1 trillion. In constant 1981 dollars (calculated [here](http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/)), he raised the debt by about 1.25 trillion, from a starting point of just under a trillion - increasing the debt by slightly more than a factor of two over eight years. In _four_ years, Obama will increase the debt by an estimated 6.35 trillion dollars, and as a percentage of GDP it will increase from 69.2% to 100.8%. That’s using the Administration’s own forcecast, mind you. Experience tells us it will be significantly higher. In constant 1981 dollars, Obama’s increase is 2.68 trillion. Looked at annually, in constant 1981 dollars, Reagan increased the debt by 156 billion dollars per year. Obama’s increase of the debt in 1981 dollars is $670 billion per year - a rate of increase a little over four times greater. Reagan doesn’t hold a candle to Obama in terms of piling on the debt, and his increase was nowhere near the four times you claim it was. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/125 "2010-02-10T01:53:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Where was this concern when Bush was in the Whitehouse? There was plenty of it. I suggest you google “Bush Deficits”, and restrict the search to pre-2009 results. You’ll find more than you can read. But speaking of Bush: using the same source above, he increased the deficit by a total of 11.9% of GDP over 8 years. Obama is predicting an increase of 36.4% in half that time. So if there is a lot more concern about the debt today than there was in the past, it might just be because the debt is now being increased at a rate that makes Bush look like a miser. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/126 "2010-02-10T01:55:40Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe but it was worth the risk. “Would have been” instead of “was” makes it a correct sentence. A crazy, stupid sentiment, but grammatically correct. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/127 "2010-02-10T05:47:09Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well had he launched a pre-emptive military strike we might have killed a whole bunch of Al-Qaeda people. I might have prevented a termite infestation by farting into my crawlspace. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/128 "2010-02-10T05:59:11Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe but it was worth the risk. Are you serious? How many excess civilian deaths as a result of “preemptive strikes” in the Middle East would have been acceptable to save 5,000 American lives? Ignoring altogether the fact you couldn’t be sure you prevented what never happens. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/129 "2010-02-10T06:17:54Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe but it was worth the risk. Says the person who wasn’t in any danger. If you come across this post in 10 years, you will be ashamed of the sentiment you just expressed. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/130 "2010-02-10T20:32:20Z")
Not to return to the OP or anything, but here’s a nice contemporary take on Reagan in the pages of [Captain America Vol 1 344; 1988:](http://marvel.wikia.com/Comics:Captain_America_Vol_1_344) > [@](#): > > “Don’t Tread on Me” > > A toxin turns President Ronald Reagan into a snake and Captain America battles him in the oval office. After the president has stripped down to his underwear and taken snake form Captain America must avoid being attacked but can’t fight back because he doesn’t want to kill the leader of the free world. Snake-Reagan eventually sweats so much his scales melt off and he regains his human form. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/131 "2010-02-10T23:46:25Z")
[Reagan parody.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skQuhoG7fFM) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/132 "2010-02-10T23:52:53Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe but it was worth the risk. :dubious: No, you did not write that. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/133 "2010-02-11T03:22:48Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Are you serious? How many excess civilian deaths as a result of “preemptive strikes” in the Middle East would have been acceptable to save 5,000 American lives? Ignoring altogether the fact you couldn’t be sure you prevented what never happens. It’s certain that Al-Qaeda was behind Cole so a short surgical strike with minimal civilian casualties (certainly fewer than 3,000) was possible and that at least is better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/134 "2010-02-11T03:24:22Z")
[Ronald Reagan speech on the Evil Empire](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do0x-Egc6oA) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/135 "2010-02-11T03:46:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Reagan quadrupled the National Debt under his pregnancy. Is there something he didn’t tell Nancy about? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/136 "2010-02-11T04:47:20Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It’s certain that Al-Qaeda was behind Cole Not until Clinton was out of office. > [@](#): > > so a short surgical strike with minimal civilian casualties (certainly fewer than 3,000) was possible and that at least is better than nothing. Holy shit, 3000 innoncent people is “minimal?” That’s how many died in 9/11. That’s a fucking major massacre, and a major outrage to the world, to maybe get two or three kooks? That’s insane. But be that as it may, it was Bush’s decision, not Clinton’s. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/137 "2010-02-11T05:13:35Z")
Funny how when it’s 3000 of “them,” we’re fine with it, but when it’s 3000 of us, we go collectively insane and demand apocalyptic justice. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/138 "2010-02-11T07:29:03Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It’s certain that Al-Qaeda was behind Cole so a short surgical strike with minimal civilian casualties (certainly fewer than 3,000) was possible and that at least is better than nothing. Were you a military strategist in 2000? On what do you base your assertion that a “short surgical strike” could have prevented 9/11? Or is that even what you are saying? Wishful thinking is one thing, but actively advocating the deaths of innocent civilians for uncertain outcomes is completely illogical. Would you mind if I killed you, and your family, and your neighborhood, and the 10 surrounding neighborhoods, because I “knew” that one or two of the inhabitants would be suicide bombers? What evidence would you require before you’d consider it acceptable for me to kill you and your family? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/139 "2010-02-11T18:22:44Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It’s certain that Al-Qaeda was behind Cole so a short surgical strike with minimal civilian casualties (certainly fewer than 3,000) was possible and that at least is better than nothing. Judging from some of the threads that you’ve started, **Curtis** , I would say that you’re a religious, God fearing Christian; as such, how can you possibly advocate mass murder? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/140 "2010-02-12T02:03:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not until Clinton was out of office. But it was even back than more or less probable that Al-Qaeda was behind it. > [@](#): > > Holy shit, 3000 innoncent people is “minimal?” That’s how many died in 9/11. That’s a fucking major massacre, and a major outrage to the world, to maybe get two or three kooks? That’s insane. > > But be that as it may, it was Bush’s decision, not Clinton’s. I’m not killing about 3,000 people-obviously a surgical strike/commando operation would kill far fewer-not a single bombing campaign of the War on Terror has killed that many. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948.md?page=8)