# Ronald Reagan's Birthday **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948 "2010-02-06T20:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/141 "2010-02-12T04:04:53Z")
Okay, if you choose not to answer my first question, I’ll ask another. How can a “true Christian” (if that’s what you are) advocate the killing of innocents, which by some estimates is near 100,000 (in Iraq)? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/142 "2010-02-12T04:09:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Okay, if you choose not to answer my first question, I’ll ask another. How can a “true Christian” (if that’s what you are) advocate the killing of innocents, which by some estimates is near 100,000 (in Iraq)? To prevent greater evil. We must pave the way for a better world for our children and grandchildren. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/143 "2010-02-12T04:44:23Z")
That’s specious logic, **Curtis**. In this “better world” that you’re imagining, would the children and grandchildren of the innocent civilians that you’d have killed be alive? Should we just use a commando strike force to wipe them out were they to seek vengeance for their losses? I suggest that you familiarize yourself with the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18, verse 21. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/144 "2010-02-12T04:46:03Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > …more or less probable… I know that people of good conscience can disagree, but for me, personally, I’d like the Commander in Chief to set a slightly higher threshold before lobbing explosives around. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/145 "2010-02-12T05:07:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > To prevent greater evil. We must pave the way for a better world for our children and grandchildren. But these are ALSO someone’s children and grandchildren. How are they any less worthy than our’s? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/146 "2010-02-12T05:13:14Z")
They don’t have Nintendo. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/147 "2010-02-12T05:30:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They don’t have Nintendo. Only goats. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/148 "2010-02-12T06:05:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > To prevent greater evil. We must pave the way for a better world for our children and grandchildren. Such decisions must be made by hard-headed and realistic men, men not afraid to make the really tough calls, willing to protect the public from having to confront the necessities of survival in a dangerous world. He must be willing to weigh the lives others as so many counting units, and must be willing to follow through on those choices without hesitation, which shows weakness to our enemies, who are legion. He must avoid the weakening council of liberal do-gooders, whose hearts are no doubt well placed but their thinking is fuzzy and unrealistic, they are unwilling to confront the brutal truth of our world. Deep down in the place they don’t talk about at parties, they want such men protecting them from themselves. Men like your namesake, for instance. If you train yourself with great care, and apply yourself without stinting, you may become one of those men. If so, give a moment’s thought to my advice: you may wish to consider the advantages and comforts that atheism offers such men. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/149 "2010-02-12T10:27:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > That’s specious logic, **Curtis**. In this “better world” that you’re imagining, would the children and grandchildren of the innocent civilians that you’d have killed be alive? Should we just use a commando strike force to wipe them out were they to seek vengeance for their losses? Sometimes you have to kill people to save the world from the crimes they would have committed. I think that sentiment appears in the Book of [Judges](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Death). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/150 "2010-02-12T14:30:36Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It’s certain that Al-Qaeda was behind Cole so a short **surgical** strike with minimal civilian casualties (certainly fewer than 3,000) was possible and that at least is better than nothing. This word - I do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/151 "2010-02-12T17:08:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Sometimes you have to kill people to save the world from the crimes they would have committed. I think that sentiment appears in the Book of [Judges](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Death). And who are you, or we, as a nation, to decide who may one day become a terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/152 "2010-02-12T17:10:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I know that people of good conscience can disagree, but for me, personally, I’d like the Commander in Chief to set a slightly higher threshold before lobbing explosives around. But in reality Al-Qaeda was behind it and Osama Bin Laden could have been killed or captured. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/153 "2010-02-12T17:17:07Z")
I guess you missed the part where we invaded Afghanistan and _still_ couldn’t kill or capture him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/154 "2010-02-12T17:20:31Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > But in reality Al-Qaeda was behind it and Osama Bin Laden could have been killed or captured. No school today? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/155 "2010-02-12T17:57:25Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > But in reality Al-Qaeda was behind it and Osama Bin Laden could have been killed or captured. I was going to say something about hindsight, can’t remember how the phrase goes… ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/156 "2010-02-12T17:57:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I guess you missed the part where we invaded Afghanistan and _still_ couldn’t kill or capture him. OBL went into deep hiding after 9-11, we had more of a chance after the Cole. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No school today? It’s the birthday of the great American President Abraham Lincoln. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/157 "2010-02-12T18:13:15Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > OBL went into deep hiding after 9-11, we had more of a chance after the Cole. Uh, no. Bin Laden has been in “deep hiding” since at least 1996, when the Egyptian (and possibly Saudi) governments began trying to assassinate him in Sudan. He’s also had Interpol warrants out for his arrest since at least 1998. The UN imposed sanctions against Afghanistan in 1999, at the request of the Clinton government, so it’s not as though he didn’t know we were looking for him. Seriously, let this go. You’re way off base. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/158 "2010-02-12T18:24:30Z")
It would also be nice to see **Curtis** acknowledge that it wasn’t Bill Clinton’s call anyway, but W’s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/159 "2010-02-12T18:27:06Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It’s the birthday of the great American President Abraham Lincoln. 🙂 But Presidents’ Day is on Monday. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948/160 "2010-02-13T15:30:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > And who are you, or we, as a nation, to decide who may one day become a terrorist? One of us has been whooshed. Did you click the link? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ronald-reagans-birthday/527948.md?page=9)