# Rookie picked off first base. Who is to blame? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 28, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501 "2013-10-28T23:08:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/1 "2013-10-28T23:08:40Z")
Obviously the runner on first is the most responsible, but shouldn’t the first base coach accept some of the blame? The runner is a rookie in his first World Series game. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/2 "2013-10-28T23:15:04Z")
By the time you reach the majors, you’ve had a shit-ton of experience plus even the worse player in the league is still massively talented. Yes, rookie jitters and more experienced pitcher/first baseman. As far as any blame on the coach, it would depend on the specifics of what happened ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/3 "2013-10-28T23:29:16Z")
It’s Wong’s fault. His run was meaningless there, so he should have taken a conservative lead from first. Don’t hug the bag because you can beat out a force at second on a ball hit to the holes, but you certainly can’t risk being picked off, and you’re not going to steal there, either. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/4 "2013-10-28T23:59:36Z")
Yeah, I’m going to have to agree with the others. The runner is completely to blame. He should know what kind of a lead is safe. He might be a rookie in the big leagues, but he had to play his way to the majors in a perfect Darwinian world of survival of the fittest. He isn’t there because his uncle sells soda in the stands. He has the talent to be there. And he should have known better. He should have understood the situation, what his role was on the base paths, and what his being picked off would mean. The lead he took was too far. It looked too far when he took that last half-step. When a pitcher doesn’t see you where he expects to see you, you are in one of two places. Standing on the bag, or too far out from the bag, in “no man’s land”. The second place requires a pick-off throw in almost every case. Last night was no exception. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/5 "2013-10-29T00:39:47Z")
What are the odds he’s still on the team (or even in the majors) next year? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/6 "2013-10-29T01:07:14Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > What are the odds he’s still on the team (or even in the majors) next year? 100% for both. He’s a valuable young player with a miniscule salary. He fucked up - he’ll learn. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/7 "2013-10-29T02:06:42Z")
We don’t know what the first base coach told him so we don’t know. If Wong was instructed to take a jump on first movement, he did exactly what he was told to do and is not at fault. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/8 "2013-10-29T02:42:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > We don’t know what the first base coach told him so we don’t know. If Wong was instructed to take a jump on first movement, he did exactly what he was told to do and is not at fault. Yes we do. > [@](#): > > “Well, he knew, we had meetings early on, we go over all these guys,” St. Louis manager Mike Matheny said. “We talk very clearly about a very good pickoff move. He was reminded once he got on base, and also reminded that run didn’t mean much, [to be] be careful, shorten up. And he got a little extra, then he slipped and the slip cost him.” ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/9 "2013-10-29T15:55:38Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > What are the odds he’s still on the team (or even in the majors) next year? Yeah, he’s not some no-name kid; he’s one of the Cardinals best prospects from the minors. He’ll be on the team next year (although maybe not from the very beginning of the year). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/10 "2013-10-29T16:13:26Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > What are the odds he’s still on the team (or even in the majors) next year? The final play of the [1926 World Series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1926_New_York_Yankees_season)was Babe Ruth being caught trying to steal second while Bob Meusel (.315 batting average) was at bat. Ruth returned to play the 1927 season with the Yankees and had a good year. ---
**Author:** ![Heropsychodreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Heropsychodreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heropsychodreamer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/11 "2013-10-29T17:31:14Z")
I’ll say this without being able to find out who else was still on the Cardinal’s bench at the time, but I’m going to place a decent amount of blame on the Card’s manager for putting a rookie in to pinch run. He is sticking a rookie, into his first World Series game cold. He is not needed for his speed (I don’t even know if he is a speadster) because as noted, his run is not the one that matters. Why not put a more experienced player into run. One is has more experience on the bath paths, and maybe more than ZERO WS experience. Furthermore, from what I understand, Wong would be the 2nd best PH available to the Cards, so if they do tie up the game and need a PH in extra innings, he wouldn’t be available. I think the Card’s manager has done a pretty poor job overall in this Series. I come away unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/12 "2013-10-29T17:41:35Z")
> [@Heropsychodreamer](#): > > He is not needed for his speed (I don’t even know if he is a speadster) because as noted, his run is not the one that matters. Wong is very fast. But you’re right. I was confused by the move at the time. I mean, you have to pinch run for Craig, who would probably be forced out at second on any hard hit ball to the outfield (I only exaggerate slightly), but the real speed needs to be the tying run. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/13 "2013-10-29T21:53:29Z")
> [@Heropsychodreamer](#): > > I’ll say this without being able to find out who else was still on the Cardinal’s bench at the time, but I’m going to place a decent amount of blame on the Card’s manager for putting a rookie in to pinch run. He is sticking a rookie, into his first World Series game cold. He is not needed for his speed (I don’t even know if he is a speadster) because as noted, his run is not the one that matters. Why not put a more experienced player into run. One is has more experience on the bath paths, and maybe more than ZERO WS experience. Furthermore, from what I understand, Wong would be the 2nd best PH available to the Cards, so if they do tie up the game and need a PH in extra innings, he wouldn’t be available. This is contradictory. If Wong can’t be trusted to carry an unimportant run around the bases, why can he be trusted to pinch-hit in extra innings? The alternatives for Matheny at the time (other than backup catcher Tony Cruz, an obvious no-go) were Pete Kozma and Adam Wainwright. Wainwright would certainly have been a defensible choice, although some people dislike using pitchers as pinch runners due to the risk of injury. Kozma would also have been viable, since he has little value as a pinch-hitter. But then, Wong hit for an even lower average than Kozma during the season. If it were up to me I’d base the decision on which player of the three (Wong, Kozma, Wainwright) I _least_ wanted to have available as a PH in extra innings. I don’t know the Cardinals well enough to know the answer. But, I wouldn’t be afraid to put a rookie on the bases with an unimportant run–if he’s that inexperienced and/or incompetent, he should never have been on the World Series roster. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/14 "2013-10-29T22:20:30Z")
There’s a thing called “caught leaning”. The pick-off throw was perfect as it was delivered at precisely the time that Wong was moving towards second. So, he not only had to dive back to the base, he had to reverse direction. When a base runner takes a lead in a pick-off situation he has to keep his weight neutral or towards 1st base until he decides to take off. Wong didn’t do that. It was a raw, rookie, base running mistake which he may never make again. Give a lot of credit to the pitcher for reading the situation and executing the pick-off. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/15 "2013-10-29T22:28:08Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Give a lot of credit to the pitcher for reading the situation and executing the pick-off. Uehara says he was only trying to break up the rhythm on Beltran at the plate. He was as surprised as anyone else at the pick-off. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/16 "2013-10-29T22:36:07Z")
One of the reasons Wong was brought up to the majors this year is because he is a very good base stealer. He set a few records in the minors. Maybe that had to do with his getting picked off. Maybe a little overconfident. He’ll be back especially if he can start hitting. As far as the Cards putting a rookie out there, two of their starting pitchers and 3 relievers are rookies and that’s worked out pretty well for the year. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/17 "2013-10-29T23:15:53Z")
Why are people saying it was Wong’s first World Series game? Didn’t he steal second in the eighth inning of the previous game? ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rookie-picked-off-first-base-who-is-to-blame/672501/18 "2013-10-29T23:18:24Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > There’s a thing called “caught leaning”. The pick-off throw was perfect as it was delivered at precisely the time that Wong was moving towards second. So, he not only had to dive back to the base, he had to reverse direction. Combine that with the fact that his right foot slipped out from under him, and it’s a bad combination for the runner. Sucks for him, but that’s why they play the game.