# (Roommate drama) Was I a selfish asshole or was this justifiable? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732 "2014-06-01T00:35:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/41 "2014-06-01T18:15:44Z")
I think there is a way to accomplish the same thing but in a slightly different manner: Rather than say “I don’t want to see you here again,” you march down to the living room, with both of them present, and you tell him directly why you despise him: _John, you treat Sara like shit. You come into her life and pretend that you want to be with her, only to disappear all of a sudden leaving her heartbroken. You should see how she breaks down crying for days on end every time you do this crap. You are an evil force in her life. I am the one who has to console her, tell her everything’s gonna be alright, and I have had enough of your shit. If you two want to continue this charade, count me out. I will watch the two of you continue to be miserable and I won’t give a fuck about it._ Balls in her court, you got your point across to John, and you didn’t deliver the parental ultimatum that caused your current conflict. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/42 "2014-06-01T22:35:43Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > My best guess is this: I was raised in that ambiguous, post-feminist, pre-genderblind world where women are strong and independent but men are still expected to protect them. From what, I don’t know, because it’s an unresolved conflict in gender roles if they’re already fully capable of taking care of themselves. I also grew up in a different country and culture where gender roles were different, but that is not a defense for my behavior in this culture. > > Such an upbringing affected my snap judgment because we default to preprogrammed patterns absent careful preconsideration. And in this case, that programming was to stand up for somebody I did not believe could. > > I was wrong, and in the future I will let both men and women proceed as they please in romantic relationships. I will give my opinion if solicited, within reason, and if my opinion and their action continue to mismatch over time, I will say “Just leave me out of this, then” instead of confronting anybody about it. > > I’m sorry, I don’t understand what this sentence means? Does “snap” mean to “understand”? As in why did I let her move in at all if she’s prone to this type of behavior? > > Well, then my honest answer is I just didn’t consider it very thoroughly. My last roomie moved out and I needed somebody to fill the space. It was her idea to move in and it seemed like a good fit to me, and in every other way it has been. I hope this can be resolved and it can continue to a good living situation for both of us because it’s been great otherwise. > > EDIT: And it’s just never been this bad. She had troubles with previous BFs, but nothing overly unreasonable, and they never treated her the way this guy did. I never acted in this way before this incident. I won’t again. > > Yes, I’ve been here a long time, but I definitely don’t have a lot of people-savvy. If I did I wouldn’t need to ask for interpersonal advice from strangers on the Internet. I’ve grown and learned a lot from the SDMB over the years, through my own share of emotional and relationship issues (you can look up the threads if you really want to, but they’re not very exciting). And I am thankful that there ARE strangers on the internet willing to share their own experiences and opinions in an honest, but not cruel, way. I try my best to heed people’s advice here, and by and large I’ve been more successful at that than not, but I’m flawed and error-prone as much as anyone else. Please don’t think that I was picking at you, your attitude, or your upbringing-it’s just that I, myself, have been incredibly slow on the uptake in re: the woman with shithead bf situations, and I couldn’t believe that I wasn’t the last person to have figured it out. What I was getting at was that females generally know that they are getting the short end of the stick in these relationships, but, they think that the dipshit will change, somehow, and they will vigorously protect said dipshit. If I have any issue with your behavior, it is that you didn’t see that this is one of those classical relationships, and any attempt on your part to help the woman is likely to backfire on you, and get you in a world of hurt, at her hands. I’m also a bit surprised that bf didn’t remonstrate physically. In re the ‘snap’ comment, (in this context, I’m using ‘snap’ as understand, or ‘catch on’) all I meant was that after, what, three full cycles of her being treated shoddily by bf, and still getting back with him, you still thought that she didn’t thrive on this kind of relationship, and she was going to behave reasonably, and she would not attack you like some mad dog for any attempts to be helpful, and this shocked me. Kicking the bf out was reasonable; adding the part about his ‘hurting her too many times’ showed that you were in a mist. Best wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/43 "2014-06-01T22:55:35Z")
Way out of line - though obviously you meant well. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/44 "2014-06-02T04:05:01Z")
I don’t understand why you’d have to just ask her to leave if it doesn’t work out, and then leave yourself if she doesn’t want to. You’re the primary lessee and she would need to be given enough time to make other arrangements, but you’d have every right to tell her it’s not working out and she needs to leave in a month or whatever. Just because you made a mistake doesn’t mean you have to bend over backwards from now on. The mistake doesn’t really have any lasting consequences so an apology should be enough to set things right. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/45 "2014-06-02T04:42:15Z")
Looking at this situation from a different direction, rather than being an outsider/enabler in her dramas, now you’ve moved from a supporting role to a lead role in your very own dramatic story line with her. I’m curious how long she’ll be giving you the silent treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/46 "2014-06-02T06:02:59Z")
Also, all this “apologize profusely” and “apologize to the asshole dude too” crap is just crap. Sounds like it should be more of an attitude of “I’m sorry I stuck my nose where it didn’t belong. I hope we can work this out, and I won’t get involved again because that wasn’t my place, but if we’re going to continue to be roommates I must insist that neither of us have a lot of drama with guests.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/47 "2014-06-02T10:00:09Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Who cares if it was appropriate or not, you don’t need that bullshit drama in your life. Really, she broke up with her boyfriend, moved out of his apartment into yours because she was so unhappy, then is inviting him back into her life a month later… Whatever this means to your friendship, I hope it means that you have a chance to find a new, drama-free, roommate. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/48 "2014-06-02T12:52:23Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Also, all this “apologize profusely” and “apologize to the asshole dude too” crap is just crap. Sounds like it should be more of an attitude of “I’m sorry I stuck my nose where it didn’t belong. I hope we can work this out, and I won’t get involved again because that wasn’t my place, but if we’re going to continue to be roommates I must insist that neither of us have a lot of drama with guests.” I too think some of the reaction to the OP is a little over the top. Yeah, it was crossing a line, but friends do stupid things for each other all the time, including intervening in relationships. I wanted to point out a bit of mitigating evidence for **Reply** : yes, you should have dealt with your friend and not her boyfriend, but according to your OP, you tried to do that and she walked away. If she has the right to have the visitors she wants over, you have a right to a conversation about said visitors. And as both a friend and a roommate, I think you also have the right to a less defensive reaction to your nose’s presence in her business, as well as a recognition that parts of it are becoming your business, too. The right thing for you to do would have been to try again later, and you’re not the only one who didn’t consider their friend as much as they should have. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/49 "2014-06-02T15:37:00Z")
Maybe you did step over the line, but you can only take so much of the drama. Tell her if her problems become your problems, she needs to get gone! ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/50 "2014-06-02T16:27:38Z")
Having been in a somewhat similar situation recently, I have to join in with the majority of “you meant well, but handled it poorly.” The way I handled matters was “your rights end where mine begin.” My roommate was on an emotional roller-coaster with a guy, and I completely understand how tiring / frustrating it is to hear the same sob story over and over, when the person shows little to no recognition of the pattern of self-destructive behavior. His behavior alienated a good deal of our friends because (when things were good w/ his boyfriend), he would blow off all his friends and show no consideration for anyone but him and his boyfriend, but once they had a fight (a weekly occurrence), he would immediately turn to those friends to listen to him cry and whine for hours. (This was a relationship of a few months, by the way) As much as they fought, I realized that the roommate had a right to allow whoever he wanted into our common spaces. I also told him that, when it came to any sort of relationship troubles he was having with the guy, I didn’t want to hear it, because it was always the same story and he showed no willingness to attempt to grow or learn from his mistakes. This caused a few fights because whenever he would try and talk about the 100th time they broke up, I would shut him down, offering to talk about anything else, but not that. Now, once they became violent and damaged the apartment, that’s when I became more strict, saying (but not forbidding) that I didn’t want the boyfriend in the apartment anymore, as it became a safety issue, as well as I didn’t want any of my property to get damaged. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/51 "2014-06-02T16:44:08Z")
ISTM that there’s some confusion owing to the OP being in the role of both roomate and friend. For example, several posters said things like: > [@Bozuit](#): > > If she has the right to have the visitors she wants over, you have a right to a conversation about said visitors. I disagree with this. The roomate has a right to vet visitors if those people are interfering with his/her life in the capacity of roomate. Suppose visitors were dangerous, or stole things, or took drugs and so on. But in this case, the BF was apparently perfectly well behaved. The only problems he caused were as friend, in that he caused turmoil in the GF’s life. The OP was essentially using his prerogative as roomate to exert pressure about something that did not concern him as roomate but only as friend. Unfair, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/52 "2014-06-02T16:56:31Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Really, she broke up with her boyfriend, moved out of his apartment into yours because she was so unhappy, then is inviting him back into her life a month later… > > Whatever this means to your friendship, I hope it means that you have a chance to find a new, drama-free, roommate. I think this is probably the bottom line. This woman is not the roommate for you, **reply** , if you want to have an adult, drama-free life. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/53 "2014-06-02T22:23:23Z")
Yep, I get it. I’m just not going to be involved in their situation anymore. I never should’ve gotten involved in the first place. If it becomes more dramatic than that – hopefully it won’t; roomie and the BF both appear to be perfectly sane, reasonable people except with each other – then we’ll deal with the living situation as fairly as possible to all involved, myself included. And yes, I understand I have the right to a drama-free space. And that I don’t have the right to go around her and talk to him, at least not right off the bat. It wasn’t the best moment for her and I to have the conversation about him, and I should’ve at least tried to talk to her another time or two before jumping the gun. Situations like this are just one of the risks of living with people, but it’s not the end of the world. I know to act differently next time. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/54 "2014-06-03T12:25:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > ISTM that there’s some confusion owing to the OP being in the role of both roomate and friend. For example, several posters said things like:I disagree with this. The roomate has a right to vet visitors if those people are interfering with his/her life in the capacity of roomate. Suppose visitors were dangerous, or stole things, or took drugs and so on. But in this case, the BF was apparently perfectly well behaved. The only problems he caused were as friend, in that he caused turmoil in the GF’s life. The OP was essentially using his prerogative as roomate to exert pressure about something that did not concern him as roomate but only as friend. Unfair, IMO. To me, visitors in shared places of living are a tricky matter of overlapping rights. When I share a flat with someone, I consider it my right to _not_ have to deal with visitors. At the same time, it would be my flatmate’s right to have visitors. That’s where the conversation would come in, by which I mean the roommate at least taking the time to listen to **Reply’s** concerns and provide some kind of reassurance. Taking the view that you have an absolute right to the visitors you want and that you’re going to exercise that right unilaterally doesn’t seem a helpful approach to sharing living space. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/55 "2014-06-03T12:51:30Z")
You don’t want to have to “deal with visitors” period? I can’t imagine anyone would assume that’s part of an apartment-sharing agreement. If you can’t deal with your roommate having visitors, then you shouldn’t have a roommate. What I agree about is if the visitors are interfering with you in some way (other than their mere presence). But that’s not the case here. The entire issue the OP has with the visitors is about his opinions about the roommate’s private and social life. That’s not something that deserves a conversation. I mean, if he wants to butt in to his friend’s private matters, that’s one thing, and there is some slack here because the friend has already conferred with him a lot about it (though even there there are bounds, of course). But to use his prerogative as roommate as leverage over her personal life is completely out of bounds, IMO. General idea is: if he has some issue with this roommate’s visitor that is _solely connected to his status as visitor and unrelated to his opinions about his roommate’s personal life_, then that’s fair game for a conversation. But you can’t pull the roommate trump card if it’s really all about her personal life. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732/56 "2014-06-03T23:13:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You don’t want to have to “deal with visitors” period? I can’t imagine anyone would assume that’s part of an apartment-sharing agreement. If you can’t deal with your roommate having visitors, then you shouldn’t have a roommate. No, I mean that if, for example, I’m tired and have work in 6 hours, I consider it my right to not want any visitors. That doesn’t mean I expect a veto; it means I expect to be able to talk about it and perhaps find a compromise according to how much each person’s preference would inconvenience the other. In theory, it’s very civilized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roommate-drama-was-i-a-selfish-asshole-or-was-this-justifiable/689732.md?page=2)