# "Roosevelt Republicans" - Would Teddy stand a chance today?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074 "2003-07-22T02:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PhDMetalhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PhDMetalhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhDMetalhead)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/1 "2003-07-22T02:19:31Z")
I’ve recently seen a few documentaries on Theodore Roosevelt’s life and career, and have done some follow-up reading, and the one thing that stands out for me is this: I suspect that this man, who was clearly one of this country’s greatest presidents, would probably have so little support from the modern GOP that he’d be lucky to be elected Superintendent of Streets in Toledo… At the same time, modern politicians who refer to themselves as “Roosevelt Republicans” (I’m thinking most recently of Illinois Senator Peter Fitzgerald) increasingly find themselves way out on the fringe of the party. Of the current Republican “planks”, virtually the only things TR would be likely to agree with would be the need for a strong defense and military, and for protecting (and projecting) our influence around the world. On the other hand, his anti-big business stands, genuine care for common people, and commitment to environmental issues would, I’m convinced, get him drummed out of today’s GOP. Anyway, all of this babbling aside, I’m just wondering how many modern Republican voters would ever consider voting for such a candidate (even if the party itself gave him no support), or would most of you rather have more GWB, Cheney, and company? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/2 "2003-07-22T02:32:09Z")
You’re forgetting the gobs and gobs of muscular charisma this man had. He _almost_ won on a third party ticket he started his own self. My god, if you thought Reagan Democrats and Clinton Republicans crossed over, wait till you see Roosevelt on the stump. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/3 "2003-07-22T02:47:54Z")
I recall when the phrase “Liberal (or Progressive) Republican” wasn’t an oxymoron. We didn’t leave the party; we were thrown out twentysome years ago. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/4 "2003-07-22T02:48:30Z")
Well, **Ph** theres a lot hidden behind that “favor a strong military”. Teddy was entirely too enthusiastic about things military, and seemed to regard war as just the sort of manly diversion a vigorous young nation should pursue. Words cannot express the loathing this sort of thinking deserves. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/5 "2003-07-22T02:48:55Z")
I recall when the phrase “Liberal (or Progressive) Republican” wasn’t an oxymoron. We didn’t leave the party; we were thrown out twentysome years ago. Cripes, I even loved his daughter and she was rather older than I. And rather more conservative. But a cranky old bird! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/6 "2003-07-22T02:48:55Z")
I recall when the phrase “Liberal (or Progressive) Republican” wasn’t an oxymoron. We didn’t leave the party; we were thrown out twentysome years ago. Cripes, I even loved his daughter and she was rather older than I. And rather more conservative. But a cranky old bird! ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/7 "2003-07-22T02:50:33Z")
Were he alive today, he’d run as a Democratic hawk, in all probability. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/8 "2003-07-22T02:53:10Z")
Wow! I’ve never done a TRIPLE POST before! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/9 "2003-07-22T03:58:07Z")
Roosevelt would have been tagged as a rabid environmentalist, as he was responsible for adding [five National Parks, 150 national forests, 51 federal bird reservations, four national game preserves, 18 national monuments and 24 reclamation projects.](http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/conservation.htm#NatPark) I don’t think he would support the drive for drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge, a litmus test for membership in the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/10 "2003-07-22T12:54:10Z")
I dont think anyone would label Roosevelt as a “rabid envioronmentalist”, since he was too much of an outdoorsman. Those today who dont like “rabid environmentalists” would actually love Roosevelt since he was a hunter and fisherman. Furthermore, Roosevelt did not try to close off public lands to keep the public “out”, he tried to create public lands for people to enjoy and to give the public access to recreational areas- big difference. Todays "rabid environmentalists want to close off our forests to hunters and fishermen and prospectors and get rid of the roads to deny the public access to recreation. Nobody on Mount Rushmore could get elected today. Washington and Jefferson were too much in favor of freedom and the Bill of Rights, and Lincoln was too uneducated. Roosevelt specifically, was too much of a gun nut to get elected today. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/11 "2003-07-22T15:15:58Z")
Of course, they’d be different people today. Hm. Washington would be… All things considered, he might have been born to lead RJR Nabisco. Jefferson would be R. M. Stallman, of the Free Software Foundation, as well as Robert Heinlein. Lincoln would be in politics. He would be the crusader of the common man, quite probably a senator at the least, and our country would be better for him. A white MLKjr, at the very least. And Teddy would be kicking ass in Africa. God knows what, but he’d probably wind up with Rooseveltia. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/12 "2003-07-22T17:29:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Well, **Ph** theres a lot hidden behind that “favor a strong military”. Teddy was entirely too enthusiastic about things military, and seemed to regard war as just the sort of manly diversion a vigorous young nation should pursue. > > Words cannot express the loathing this sort of thinking deserves. \*\* Bullsh\*t. Not when you VOLUNTARILY put your own ass on the line to back it up. Plus, it would be a hoot to watch him bitch-slap mouthy protesters. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/13 "2003-07-22T18:59:07Z")
Well, heck, if you like games like this… you think John F. Kennedy (who ran for President on a platform of tax cuts and a more aggressive, hawkish foreign policy) would have a prayer of getting the Democratic nomination today? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/14 "2003-07-22T21:45:50Z")
The problem with asking questions like this is that the times shaped the man and the times have changed immeasurably since Roosevelt was elevated from the Vice-Presidency to President when William McKinley was murdered. McKinley was the last of the Civil War veterans to become President. Strangely enough he had been President Garfield’s orderly sergeant during the war. Roosevelt had been a child during the war. There is a photograph of troops marching through New York City in which one of the children watching from an upper window has been identified as TR. Roosevelt was a child of privilege, educated in private schools and Harvard, the heir to a fortune vast enough to allow him to be an amateur cowboy in the Dakotas in the closing days of the western frontier, police commissioner of New York City and reformist governor on New York, ambitious amateur soldier during the Spanish-American war, selected as McKinley’s running mate much against McKinley’s better judgment, (“that Cowboy”) a nearly rabid booster of American expansionism (The Great White Fleet and the Philippine Insurrection) and American involvement in international affairs (Roosevelt as the Honest Broker in the Russo-Japanese War), Roosevelt was shaped by his times and shaped his times. He was a progressive, a reformer, a visionary who was rejected by his party in favor of William Howard Taft, who was a mediocre politician and the captive of all the industrial and commercial interests who TR had offended with his trust busting, the Sherman Anti-trust Act and general rejection of the economic powers that were then, as now, the real controllers of the nation’s policies. By the time World War One came Roosevelt’s time was over. His Progressive Party (I feel as strong as a Bull Moose) simply acted as a spoiler that allowed the Solid South to elect Wilson when the Republican vote was split between Teddy and (I think) Taft. By the time the First World War came, Roosevelt’s time was over. Progressivism was a dead letter nationally after the war. Witness the rejection of the Treaty of Versailles and the League of Nations and the administrations of Harding, Coolidge and Hoover. Roosevelt’s policies and thinking are now hopelessly outdated. It has been, after all, more than 100 years since he came to office. The interesting question, it seems to me, is how a person with Roosevelt’s instincts, opportunities and forceful personality would do in the age of the TV pretend statesman. George W. Bush certainly isn’t TR’s reincarnation but maybe Senator McClain is. Maybe Senator Kerry, too. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/15 "2003-07-22T22:13:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Well, heck, if you like games like this… you think John F. Kennedy (who ran for President on a platform of tax cuts and a more aggressive, hawkish foreign policy) would have a prayer of getting the Democratic nomination today? \*\* John Kennedy was also for a strong military defense(his main speech theme was on the “missle gap” - i.e. the United States did not have enough nuclear missles), he was against organized crime, and he was pro-gun - John Kennedy was a member of the NRA(National Rifle Association), he hunted, and he owned a nice Colt 45 and a Weatherby 300 magnum. To answer your question, no way would John Kennedy ever get the democratic nomination today, not a prayer of a chance. ---
**Author:** ![towel2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@towel2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/towel2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/16 "2003-07-23T05:38:55Z")
he came in after mckinley was executed. our youngest president wasnt elected. so i doubt the first time around he stood a chance ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/17 "2003-07-23T06:04:28Z")
What do you mean today? TR had a hard time staying in the Republican Party even then! From _Britannica_ “ **Bull Moose Party** formally Progressive PartyU.S. dissident political faction that nominated former president Theodore Roosevelt for the presidency in 1912; the formal name and general objectives of the party were revived12 years later. Opposing the entrenched conservatism of the regular Republican Party, which was controlled by Pres. William Howard Taft, a National Republican Progressive League was organized in 1911 by Sen. Robert M. La Follette of Wisconsin. The group became the Progressive Party the following year and ran Theodore Roosevelt for president; it called for revision of the political nominating machinery and an aggressive program of social legislation. The party’s popular nickname of Bull Moose was derived from the characteristics of strength and vigour often used by Roosevelt to describe himself. The Bull Moose ticket polled some 25 percent of the popular vote. Thus split, the Republicans lost the election to the Democrats under Woodrow Wilson. The Bull Moose Party evaporated and the Republicans were reunited four years later.” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roosevelt-republicans-would-teddy-stand-a-chance-today/190074/18 "2003-07-23T12:18:32Z")
Teddy wouldn’t be able to get nominated for anything regardless of what party he was in. The man had a voive that sounded a little like Mickey Mouse on helium. This, of course, was before radio and TV changed politics. Before, they had nice-sounding words and inspiring, if often meaningless peeches. Now they have nice-sounding words recorded and inspiring, if often meaningless speeches delivered over the airwaves. Plus ca Change.