# Rooting for Evil Characters in TV Shows/Movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768 "2018-01-02T21:11:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/21 "2018-01-03T02:22:51Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I’ve heard that in an interview about _Psycho_ Hitchcock said that the scene of the car sinking in the swamp was when audiences switched allegiances. Up until then, Marion Crane was the protagonist, but when the car took that little pause on its way to the bottom, and the audience half-panicked along with Norman Bates, the almost palpable relief when the car disappeared put the audience on Norman’s side. At that point in the movie, we did not know Norman was the actual killer. Granted, he was was covering up a crime but we assumed it had been committed by his mother. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/22 "2018-01-03T02:42:29Z")
The first character that comes to my mind is Stringer Bell from The Wire. Bad, ruthless, but smart and trying to become better. //i\ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/23 "2018-01-03T03:09:19Z")
I do find myself cheering for Jamie Lanister sometimes. I have to remind myself he pushed a little boy off a tower so he could continue to sleep with his sister. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/24 "2018-01-03T03:24:52Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > Of course, Dexter knew that it was wrong…why else would he take such pains to dispose of the people he killed?? If you ask me, consciousness of guilt right there. Nah, practical considerations: he didn’t want to go to jail. > [@Alessan](#): > > In a way, Dexter - at least in the first couple of seasons, before the show started to suck - was the most moral character on TV. He hurt only the guilty, despite his terrible compulsion to kill, because it was the right thing to do. Think about it: other characters are good because of inherent character traits like compassion, empathy, belief, honor or guilt. Dexter had none of these advantages. Instead, he was as good a person as he could possibly be because he made a clear-eyed decision to be good. What could be more moral than that? Not killing anybody. I made a specific decision to be good and heeeey, I haven’t killed anybody! Apparently I’m some sort of saint! The only character in GoT I could stand in the books was Tyrion, while all my friends were rooting for the Starks. He was the only one who seemed to think. For similar reasons, Feyd was the only character in Dune that I wanted to gut for being an evil bastard rather than for being an imbecile. He was a jerk but he was internally consistent; the rest were just jerks. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/25 "2018-01-03T03:30:06Z")
Boris Badenov Nurse Ratched Patrick Bateman Anton Cighur Kristoferson’s character in “Lone Star” Dr. Evil In Merchant Ivory’s oops I mean Disney’s “At Midnight I’ll Take Your Soul”, the antagonist is such an over-the-top nasty evil doofus that you find yourself almost _luxuriating_ in his ridiculously overwrought sadism. Don Logan in “Sexy Beast” serial killer protagonist in “Man Bites Dog” the avuncular Roman Castavet in “Rosemary’s Baby” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/26 "2018-01-03T03:34:17Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > In Merchant Ivory’s oops I mean Disney’s “At Midnight I’ll Take Your Soul”, the antagonist is such an over-the-top nasty evil doofus that you find yourself almost _luxuriating_ in his ridiculously overwrought sadism. > " Disney’s???😕 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/27 "2018-01-03T03:36:06Z")
We really are fans of Negan from The Walking Dead. But that show seriously blurs the lines of good and bad. Of course our group that we have followed through out is the faves, they have done bad things, usually for self preservation, still bad. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/28 "2018-01-03T04:29:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Disney’s???😕 :smack: Damn I meant a Penny Marshall film.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sefton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Sefton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sefton)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/29 "2018-01-03T04:41:58Z")
I always root for Philip and Elizabeth in _The Americans_, but I’ve never thought of them as evil. They’re working toward (what they believe to be) a good cause. To answer the question, I rooted for Stringer Bell in _The Wire_, The Master (Mistress) in Doctor Who, and The Mighty Monarch in _The Venture Bros_. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/30 "2018-01-03T06:12:26Z")
Zorak’s snivelling misanthropy I found to be a welcome tonic. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/31 "2018-01-03T13:05:59Z")
In the movie _Day of the Jackal_ there comes a moment when The Jackal, the anonymous assassin who has taken on the task of killed French President Charles de Gaulle in 1962 France, learns that his cover has been blown. The French police know about his plot to kill the President, and have launched a nationwide manhunt for him. He drives his hired Alfa Romeo convertible up to a crossroads that branches off towards either Paris or back to Italy and relative safety. He halts his car and considers his options for a long moment. Then, with sudden decision, he pulls up the roof of his convertible and drives rapidly off for Paris. I’ve seen the movie in theaters more than once. At this moment, the audience cheers. It’s true that The Jackal is an assassin, a killer for hire. our sympathies lie for the most part with the pressured Commissaire hunting him, Claude Lebel, who is fighting incredible odds to track down this man with almost nothing to go on. But, at the same time, the audience can’t help but admire the resolve of the assassin. He’s all on his own (by design). He knows he’s being hunted, but he has faith in his plan, his disguises, and his ability to improvise. as Lebel later tells the French Council of Ministers “He has simply taken on the lot of us.” as the film proceeds, the audience finds itself in the interesting position of cheering on _both_ sides – Lebel and The Jackal. You have to admire the doggedness of both of them, trying to overcome enormous obstacles to achieve their opposing goals. The same tension holds in the book, as well, but the Jackal’s moment of decision isn’t as photogenic or iconic in print as the literal crossroads depicted in the film. As for that awful remake, _The Jackal_, the less said the better. Who could feel sympathy for a guy that wantonly slaughtered his arms supplier? The original Jackal didn’t – he just gave him a warning. He only killed his forger because the man was trying to blackmail him. ---
**Author:** ![CerealKiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@CerealKiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CerealKiller)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/32 "2018-01-03T13:21:34Z")
Big fan of Vic Mackey in “The Shield” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/33 "2018-01-03T14:29:41Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I think we get a vicarious thrill out of identifying with the bad guy, especially when he’s doing something that we \*wish \*we had the balls to pull off, but we know we don’t. Often the bad guy is shown with positive traits, just directed at evil goals: charismatic, intelligent, methodical, well-trained, cool headed, lots of leadership initiative, able to convince/manipulate people; the sort of person who can keep track of a lot of moving parts. It’s entertaining to watch them pull off a crime or heist or murder or other foul act because they’re hyper competent and we wind up respecting that. And then we root for them because they are entertaining us. Watching people who are very good at something is enjoyable even if we disagree with their goals. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/34 "2018-01-03T15:09:38Z")
My son likes the Decepticons because he thinks they’re cooler than the Autobots. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/35 "2018-01-03T15:36:29Z")
There are, of course, varieties of ‘evil’ and ‘rooting’. A - very - recent example spoilered: [spoiler]Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. During the scene in Snoke’s throne room. Rey has made her speech that Ren can be redeemed, Snoke is dead by Ren’s - forcey - hand and Ren and Rey have fought together to defeat Snoke’s guardsmen. A great scene and possibly the best one in the movie. But after it’s over you can see the struggle in Ren. He has a choice and makes a poor one - the kid’s pretty famous for poor choices - in deciding to rule instead of grow and learn. That’s a heartbreaking decision for Rey and the audience. You WANT him to be better…but his own choice doom him. At that point you’re rooting for him. But his choice leaves you behind. At that point you put him down not for his evil. But in the same way you’d put down a mad dog. It can’t behave any other way and it’s simply for the best that it’s done.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/36 "2018-01-03T15:38:20Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Often the bad guy is shown with positive traits, just directed at evil goals: charismatic, intelligent, methodical, well-trained, cool headed, lots of leadership initiative, able to convince/manipulate people; the sort of person who can keep track of a lot of moving parts. It’s entertaining to watch them pull off a crime or heist or murder or other foul act because they’re hyper competent and we wind up respecting that. And then we root for them because they are entertaining us. > > Watching people who are very good at something is enjoyable even if we disagree with their goals. And this would apply to the Ocean’s movies. Danny Ocean and his cadre are undeniably bad guys. They make elaborate plans to steal! For that matter at the beginning of the first movie he’s in jail! Rightfully! But heist movies are like that. It’s as if the protagonist is the heist itself. The players are merely the means to an end. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/37 "2018-01-03T17:11:05Z")
Boxed spoilers are useless when you don’t say what movie/show it is you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/38 "2018-01-03T17:12:01Z")
No shortage of people who rooted for Bane in _The Dark Knight Rises._ ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/39 "2018-01-03T17:22:35Z")
> [@icon](#): > > The first character that comes to my mind is Stringer Bell from The Wire. Bad, ruthless, but smart and trying to become better. > > //i\ I think one of the main things that makes The Wire brilliant is that the people and situations we’re rooting for and against is constantly changing. All of the characters are doing things we find to be good and bad, whether in a situational sense or an overall morality sense. I don’t know that many of the characters were completely good or completely bad. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768/40 "2018-01-03T18:20:25Z")
Al Swearengen from Deadwood. A evil man, but who actually cares about his town. Very deep and nuanced performance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rooting-for-evil-characters-in-tv-shows-movies/805768.md?page=3)