# Rorschach Test: Pregnant white woman brandishing gun at black women **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365 "2020-07-05T06:02:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/21 "2020-07-05T15:30:25Z")
How are these situations going to start playIng out when both parties are carrying guns? Stupid parking lot argument starts up, heated words are exchanged, someone flashes their gun, other party now feels their life is in danger and they have the “right” to defend it and pull their gun, first party now feels threatened/embolden to defend themselves. Gun battles in the burbs with both sides screaming “but I had the RIGHT to defend myself!” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/22 "2020-07-05T15:30:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > She didn’t do any of those things. She kept squabbling and backbiting through the window, and then got out of the car and drew down. She didn’t feel threatened. I agree with everything except the above. She tried to de-escalate by saying, “I care about you” and closed the window. Then they started to leave without threats or further instigation. Let’s not change what we all clearly see in the video. It’s after they were blocked from leaving that she made things worse by pulling out a gun. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/23 "2020-07-05T15:45:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I agree with everything except the above. She tried to de-escalate by saying, “I care about you” and closed the window. Then they started to leave without threats or further instigation. Let’s not change what we all clearly see in the video. I disagree that this is an attempt at de-escalation. That was just a whitelady with bruised feelings getting the final word before she rolled up her tinted window. We know she didn’t care about them because you don’t draw down on people if you care about them. And that’s fine, I don’t care about strangers on the street, but I also don’t try to win parking-lot altercations by saying that I do care about them. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/24 "2020-07-05T15:49:10Z")
This is some bullshit right there. You’re a better poster than this. There is no obligation to come to an agreement or feel any genuine empathy for the opposing party to take steps to de-escalate. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/25 "2020-07-05T15:58:20Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I haven’t followed it that closely, but I think your summary left out some important context And this is in huge measure the root of many of the reactions we are getting around the web. Incomplete information. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > When I took my CCW class that was drilled into us. Don’t do anything because you have a gun that you wouldn’t have done without it. Exactly. You have to be especially _more_ careful, not less. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But there was some weird fight about who’s a racist at the start of the video. Something must have led up to that. And we can’t tell what from the video. So from the reports, there were words exchanged about someone bumping into someone else when crossing paths at the entrance to the shop – which means the whole thing could have been avoided _through social distancing and either of the groups just stepping aside and letting the other have the entry/exitway all to themselves_. If reports are to be believed we join our show already in progress after the white couple tries to do a “whatever, lady, I’m out of here” while the black lady was the one doing a Karen continuing to demand satisfaction. Which does worry me at times, **HMS\_Irruncible** – if people are not allowed to say _“whatever, I’m out of here. I SAID: Good. Day. Sir!”_ and turn their backs on you, then we are trusting people’s social de-escalation skills a bit too much. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > The couple got in their car and without further threat or attempt to escalate were trying to calmly leave the scene. The mother and daughter (or niece? w/e) continued to instigate by blocking their exit. > > What followed should have been further attempts to de-escalate or a 911 call. Instead, things got out of hand. > > Therefore, everybody ends up getting the Asshole Trophy. Right. That one of the Assholes was disproportionately more reckless, does not detract to that everyone was being jerkish to one another. Though I have to wonder: if they **had** stayed in the car and called police, how many people online would be reacting “OMG, another white person calling police on a black person doing nothing illegal!” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/26 "2020-07-05T16:03:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is some bullshit right there. You’re a better poster than this. Thought it’s kind of you to say, I am not a better poster. But I am right about this. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > There is no obligation to come to an agreement or feel any genuine empathy for the opposing party to take steps to de-escalate. If we’re agreeing it’s fake empathy then we have to ask ourselves what fake empathy is for. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone use fake empathy to escape a hostile altercation, but I have often seen people to use it to protect their egoes. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/27 "2020-07-05T16:07:20Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If we’re agreeing it’s fake empathy then we have to ask ourselves what fake empathy is for. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone use fake empathy to escape a hostile altercation, but I have often seen people to use it to protect their egoes. I worked as a bar doorman in college. I can tell you countless stories where I was able to avoid a physical altercation by expressing faux empathy and getting the individual to stand down and leave peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/28 "2020-07-05T16:08:54Z")
never mind, discourse barfed ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/29 "2020-07-05T16:10:19Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Though I have to wonder: if they **had** stayed in the car and called police, how many people online would be reacting “OMG, another white person calling police on a black person doing nothing illegal!” I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it probably wouldn’t have gone down like this. Unlike those other videos where people are calling the cops on black people minding their own business, nobody here was a victim and nobody in this altercation comes out of it looking very good. They wanted whitelady to do something, and she did it. We’d never have heard about this if she hadn’t committed a felony. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/30 "2020-07-05T16:57:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I worked as a bar doorman in college. I can tell you countless stories where I was able to avoid a physical altercation by expressing faux empathy and getting the individual to stand down and leave peacefully. I have no way of disputing or confirming that, but I can say I don’t think that’s what we’re seeing in the video. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/31 "2020-07-05T17:09:09Z")
True, sometimes you do want to defuse the situation by letting both sides save face. Of course if it’s obvious one of the sides does _not_ want to let that happen, you should just leave it be and let them think they got the last word. Problems arise when the other party is not satisfied even with that. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > They wanted whitelady to do something, and she did it. That has been mentioned in some of the discussions. That there may have been a goading element. (BTW, “whitelady”, one word ? Is this new jargon I have missed?) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/32 "2020-07-05T17:14:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > So from the reports, there were words exchanged about someone bumping into someone else when crossing paths at the entrance to the shop Thanks. That makes it less likely the black family was trying to set up a scam, and more likely it was just people lacking patience and blowing up at each other. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/33 "2020-07-05T17:15:47Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > (BTW, “whitelady”, one word ? Is this new jargon I have missed?) It’s just my own idiosyncratic thing because I refuse to jump on the “Karen” bandwagon. We all know exactly who and what we’re talking about, may as well be plain-spoken about it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/34 "2020-07-05T17:23:28Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > while the black lady was the one doing a Karen continuing to demand satisfaction. That strikes me as some seriously egregious shit, right there. The black lady cannot be a Karen. She isn’t demanding satisfaction from her place of privilege in society, she’s demanding it as a member of a group that is routinely denied privilege and respect. A Karen expects to get what she’s after; there’s no way this lady expected the gun-toter to capitulate. Do you think she would film an encounter that she thought would have a copacetic outcome? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/35 "2020-07-05T17:28:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Thanks. That makes it less likely the black family was trying to set up a scam, and more likely it was just people lacking patience and blowing up at each other. Yeah, I get the same impression. Which reinforces the prior comments on how you need to deal with situations when armed vs. unarmed, and not think it lets you act to preempt what you think may be a possible assault two steps ahead (at least not as a civilian). The better answer IMO is if someone whips out their phone camera you whip out yours ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/36 "2020-07-05T17:31:23Z")
Seems to me, everybody films everything. Whether it gets posted to social media (and which social media) depends on the outcome and how it is likely to be perceived by the target audience. Bets are off for unrelated third party documentarians. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/37 "2020-07-05T17:42:49Z")
I can confirm that there were a number of people who deserved a serious beating that didn’t get one. Because: a) a favorable outcome isn’t always guaranteed so you exercise prudence and caution b) more often than you’d think, you feel a sense of pity for the dumb bastards and it’s just not worth it c) it won’t prove you right or them wrong and will only bruise their self-worth/ego It’s my conjecture that in this case whitelady initially decided on a) & c) knowing she had the winning strategy (gun). Unfortunately she did not have the emotional maturity to maintain her composure and restraint. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/38 "2020-07-05T17:48:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The black lady cannot be a Karen. She isn’t demanding satisfaction from her place of privilege in society, she’s demanding it as a member of a group that is routinely denied privilege and respect. A Karen expects to get what she’s after; there’s no way this lady expected the gun-toter to capitulate. Do you think she would film an encounter that she thought would have a copacetic outcome? 🤨 Oh, That, I see, you are using “Karen” = privileged vs. the older meaning of “Karen” = anyone who will not stop demanding satisfaction. Sorry about that. Like I said, I need to keep up with the jargon. As to what did she expect by filming? At the very least either an example of her standing up and demanding her due respect, or at worst reason to shame the white couple. What she did get was beyond any reasonable expectation . (Really, all my life I was taught that I don’t have to stand there and take it whether the person ripping into me is white, black, fellow Latinx, or whatever their social standing, but if I can’t back off better to take it than escalate) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/39 "2020-07-05T18:15:42Z")
Wow. I never figured you’d double down and then add in blaming the victim. Total shocker. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/40 "2020-07-05T18:19:46Z")
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