# Rorschach Test: Pregnant white woman brandishing gun at black women **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365 "2020-07-05T06:02:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/41 "2020-07-05T18:41:19Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > As to what did she expect by filming? At the very least either an example of her standing up and demanding her due respect, or at worst reason to shame the white couple. What she did get was beyond any reasonable expectation . Y’know what, yes, I got this one wrong: The baseline expectation by filming surely would be to have her own documentation of the incident in case things went wrong. That is completely reasonable. _Then_ it could be used to show justification for outrage, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/42 "2020-07-05T19:22:17Z")
I’m a big supporter of self defense, I have a Concealed Handgun License, etc. The white woman was clearly in the wrong. She escalated the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/43 "2020-07-05T19:26:55Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > How are these situations going to start playIng out when both parties are carrying guns? Did you just cut me off in the parking lot?! This Walmart ain’t big enough for the both of us… Draw! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/44 "2020-07-05T21:29:08Z")
Why was the guy fired? That makes no sense. Reading the racist twitter post and some of the comments makes me realize that the uneducated and highly delusional folks who infest social media are proof that we are having a negative return on investment with regards to the time and money spent on the education system. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/45 "2020-07-05T21:37:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why was the guy fired? That makes no sense. Michigan is an at-will state. His employer can fire him for whatever reason they like. Evidently they decided that it’s not a good look to be associated with a manbaby who can’t restrain himself from getting into profanity-laced, gun-waving altercations in the Chipotle parking lot. Can’t say that I disagree, it reflects poorly on anyone who associates with him professionally. I hope that fleeting moment of acting tough and venting steam was worth it for him. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/46 "2020-07-05T21:46:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There was no threat of physical violence. “I’ll beat your ass” doesn’t qualify?!? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/47 "2020-07-05T21:52:29Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Though I have to wonder: if they **had** stayed in the car and called police, how many people online would be reacting “OMG, another white person calling police on a black person doing nothing illegal!” I had not thought of this but it’s a great point. And the video that shows they were blocking her from exiting would not have been shared if it did not help their case. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/48 "2020-07-05T22:00:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The black lady cannot be a Karen. She isn’t demanding satisfaction from her place of privilege in society, she’s demanding it as a member of a group that is routinely denied privilege and respect. A Karen expects to get what she’s after; there’s no way this lady expected the gun-toter to capitulate. Do you think she would film an encounter that she thought would have a copacetic outcome? 🤨 I think black people are having “a moment” right now during which they do have a certain kind of disproportionate power, and some of them are trying to capitalize on it to the maximum extent possible for however long it lasts. I’m not even saying that as an especially harsh criticism. It’s understandable. It’s human nature to want payback, or to want to ride a wave that may benefit you. Especially when this type of (possibly temporary) power does not come with a huge economic benefit. It can negatively impact individual white people when they lose their jobs, but without a corresponding benefit to black people other than schadenfreude. So they may just want to take what they can get, while they can get it. That doesn’t mean however that every white person has to just roll over and submit to it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/49 "2020-07-05T22:06:40Z")
Folks have the right to self defense. Being threatened by racists, having his egress blocked, and his property damaged is his fault? ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/50 "2020-07-05T22:17:56Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You notice how she doesn’t miss a beat and never stops filming even with a gun pointed in her face? Because without film Karen or the cops could gun her down, play the “I felt my life was threatened” card, and get off with no investigation? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/51 "2020-07-05T23:07:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Folks have the right to self defense. Being threatened by racists, having his egress blocked, and his property damaged is his fault? We don’t get to pick and choose what situations we are in, but as adults, we are responsible for how we react to them. Anyway, if he really felt threatened, they both could have opted to sit in the car and dial 911. The fact that they chose to loiter around bickering with the party outside the vehicle shows that nobody really felt threatened. They just felt like they weren’t in control of the situation. Of course it’s not acceptable for white people not to be in control, so they introduced deadly force to the mix. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/52 "2020-07-06T01:12:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I think black people are having “a moment” right now during which they do have a certain kind of disproportionate power, and some of them are trying to capitalize on it to the maximum extent possible for however long it lasts. Actually, no. This is _ **not** _ a “moment of disproportionate power”. Let’s not get confused here. That feeds the mentality that led to wife’s panicked reaction and a lot of police abuse, “OMG they’re coming to get payback! We’re in greater danger!” Sure as an individual human you don’t have to “just take it”, I’ve said as much, but sometimes that’s the least bad choice. While everybody was being obnoxious to one another, the disproportionate thing here was the brandishing of the firearm. Actually, come to think of it I am kind of confused why the husband was himself arrested and fired. The wife, hell yeah, but I must be missing something here. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/53 "2020-07-06T02:22:33Z")
Concurring with JRDelirious: as the saying goes, “when you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” As to why the husband was fired, though he’s not shown doing so in the video linked, I believe I read that he also got out of the car and pulled a gun. So both were armed and threatened lethal force, apparently, ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/54 "2020-07-06T05:58:45Z")
Special treatment is not equality. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/55 "2020-07-06T06:09:11Z")
What’s the special treatment? Having police respond seriously to a report of a white woman pulling a gun on a black woman for (my words) being “upity” and “sassing her”? The police actually treating the black woman as the victim after having been threatened with a firearm, irrespective of whether or not she was (again, my words here) “polite to the white lady” who drew down on her? What’s the “non-special” way you think this should have gone down? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/56 "2020-07-06T06:45:41Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The police actually treating the black woman as the victim after having been threatened with a firearm, irrespective of whether or not she was (again, my words here) “polite to the white lady” who drew down on her? That’s quite some spin. The first threat here (at least that was captured on camera) was from the black lady, who said (something close to, quoting from memory) “I’m gonna beat your ass”. Then after the white lady declined to play (while making the very stupid assertion that “no one is racist”) and they were starting to back out, the black lady ran to the back of the car and blocked their exit, beating on the window. To compress all that to mere impoliteness is some sophistry. Would you really call it nothing more than rudeness if it were a pregnant black woman in the car and it was a MAGA douchebro threatening to beat her ass followed by blocking her egress and banging on the window? How about if it were a transwoman? You’re going to tell me you wouldn’t, in that circumstance, say she was being placed under severe stress, and that she could legitimately fear for her safety? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/57 "2020-07-06T07:07:46Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > that she could legitimately fear for her safety? Yes. I am going to tell you that she could not legitimately fear for her safety. She wanted control, not safety. If you want safety, gun or no gun, you stay in the car with the doors locked. You do not roll down the window and continue a dialogue. You do not open the door, get out, and shove your gun in someone’s face. Same question to you as to octopus: What’s the “non-special” way you think this should have gone down? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/58 "2020-07-06T08:28:47Z")
I saw someone who looked super freaked out, not someone trying to be a badass in control. Your question is pretty vague. But I’m going to interpret it as meaning “what should have happened after the video was published?” How about everybody can argue about it to their heart’s content online, but nobody gets fired or arrested? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/59 "2020-07-06T08:36:04Z")
BTW, I don’t own a gun and have not ever owned one since I was a kid and briefly had a hand-me-down .22 rifle from my father’s own childhood, until it started malfunctioning. But I’m actually not sure that the use of guns here resulted in more harm than what could easily have happened without any guns present. If I had been driving, I would have been freaked out and definitely would not have gotten back out of the car—but I would have gunned it to get out of there, which may have seriously injured the woman behind the car. ETA: I always, if at all possible, park in such a way that I don’t have to back up to get out. My wife considers this a little paranoid, but it would have been good in this circumstance. If someone’s trying to block your way, much better to have them in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365/60 "2020-07-06T10:24:34Z")
Did she get arrested for starting the fight? Did she get arrested for hitting and blocking the vehicle? Did she get arrested for threatening violence? No she didn’t. Did she lose her job for being a jackass? No. You shouldn’t instigate a fight and then whine when someone defends herself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rorschach-test-pregnant-white-woman-brandishing-gun-at-black-women/914365.md?page=4)