I’ve thought of another show that was quite realistic when it was at its best: “The Wonder Years.” Yes, nostalgic, but the way the family interacted was very real and often heartbreaking.
You and me, both.
What I liked about Leon and his partner is that they were played by Martin Mull and that other guy-who used to have a fake talk show together back in the 1970s. Wasn’t it called “Fernwood Tonight” or something? I remember it used to be on Nick at Nite years ago.
I thought it was kinda dumb to make Nancy gay because I mean, she went out with ARNIE. You’d have to be majorly hetero to put up with THAT thing.
Oh, and word on John Goodman-I love him. I think he really was the glue that held that show together.
What I especially loved about the episode where Dan beats up Fisher is that earlier, he, Dan, had to go to see DJ’s principal because DJ was caught with one of Darlene’s gothic horror comics. The guy was a really uptight prick, and Dan was appologizing, but the guy was having none of it.
Then, at the end, the cops who come to arrest Dan are old friends’ of their’s, they’re laughing and joking, even as they cuff Dan and put him in the car. Then, as the credits roll, the police car stops at a redlight, and who’s in the next car over but the Principal. Dan gives him a big wave.
Oh, and I’m convinced that Jackie had a secret crush on Dan.
Huh?
I was confused by your first post and I’m confused by your explaination.
It’s true that “Roseanne” became increasingly about the political concernes of Roseanne the actress. To the detriment of the show, even when I agreed with her most times.
But I don’t see that it had a “world view” from the beginning. It had some good story telling.
Oh and (Blue-collar feminist liberal, who believes that salvation is just a lottery ticket or a power crystal away) doesn’t comform to any reality I know of and is just obnoxious.
Well you know, sleeping with Arnie would be enough to turn any woman gay.
And hey, it just now hit me, that line was delivered by Jackie, who per Roseanne’s statement in the final ep really was gay. So, nice callback.
Nancy was after all was said and done, bisexual. After Arnie she hooked up with Marla and after that she hooked up with what’s-his-name played by Tim Curry.
Another good ep, when Roseanne was out of town (and came back with the bowl haircut), and Jackie comes over to help out, make dinner, etc. Both Dan and Jackie showed that they truly cared about each other and, had it happened that they had met first, they could have been happy together.
Roger.
I might’ve endorsed your point were it not blighted by unnecessary snarkiness. “Salvation,” in Roseanne’s world, was not about money or crystals; it was about taking as much control of your own destiny as you could (opening your own business; forgiving your father for being an abusive creep; etc.) while never losing sight of what’s really, eternally important: family. The Conners may have won the lottery, but “Roseanne” never posited money as the solution to any problems; for the Conners, having too much was almost as bad as not having enough.
I do agree that Roseanne’s egotism — her drive to change the show from a balanced ensemble comedy to a showcase in which she was always the subject, regardless of an episode’s actual plot — ultimately hurt the show’s realism. Roseanne seems to have become convinced that every event in her life had to be mirrored in the show or else she wasn’t being “honest,” even if those changes bent the show completely out of shape (e.g., the lottery season).
It was the same character; they just changed the name. There was a meta-reference to this a few seasons later, when Roseanne said re: Darlene’s dominance of David, “His name’s not even David; that’s just something she made up!”
They did have to make David different from Mark for several reasons. First, because if he was simply Mark 2.0, that wouldn’t be interesting. Early on, he sought Roseanne’s advice on how to court Darlene, and she was bowled over by his thoughtfulness and not-Mark characteristics. Having her clash with David the same way she did with Mark would have been pointless. Second, because Darlene was such strong character, David had to be more gentle or there wouldn’t be any conflict. And third, his being needy gave Roseanne a chance to be gentle and nurturing in the way that Darlene always resisted.
That said, they didn’t have to take it as far as they eventually did. Mark and DJ were consistently cruel to him, and I never thought that was funny. But I did like the dumb-Mark device, so go figure. I loved the Thanksgiving episode where he admitted he knew nothing about football, but tried to join the guys and Nana Mary in the living room anyway. He perched on the arm of the couch, ventured, “Shame about Brian Piccolo…” and in the ensuing silence, slid off the couch and slunk away.
That episode’s on right now.
One of the more amusing quotes:
After Roseanne hits DJ, Dan tells her it’s no big deal (DJ stole their car, drove it down the street and into a ditch) while Jackie says “She was just like dad.” In the next scene, Jackie confronts Dan in the garage and tells him that their dad used to be like that and says “These patterns repeat.”
Dan replies: “Well then you’d better watch out, because my dad used to love to hit his sister-in-law!”
Fred Willard.
Hey, I’m majorly hetero, and I wouldn’t put up with him…but then, I’m a guy…
Yes, it was “Fernwood Tonight,” and it was a spinoff from “Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.” Martin Mull played the host, Willard played a Fred McMahon-type sidekick.
I can only remember ever seeing a few episodes. I only watch TV on the road in hotels really. But a few stuck with me as all-time laughers.
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DJ discovers the joy of spanking the monkey. That absolutely killed me. I’d wager most men here had some sort of similar reaction/event in their lives.
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In the episode where the dark-haired daughter (that’s what, Darlene, I think) gets her period. Dan has a solid, father-to-daughter talk with her about how she can still play baseball (a man after my own heart) and doesn’t have to start being a ‘girly girl’. Darlene gives him the heartfelt ‘Thanks, Dad’ routine and leave the garage. Then, when she’s gone, Dan starts shuddering and running around and flapping his arms and such as if he’s NEVER going to want to do THAT again.
Good bit.
Actually, it was Roseanne who gave Darlene “the talk.” Dan just hit her on the arm and said “Nice going.” He was very reluctant to have anything to say on the matter.
The “spanking the monkey” episode was so funny. A great moment was when David came into the kitchen while they were talking and when Roseanne said “It’s just masturbation,” got up and walked out without saying a word.
I loved Jackie.
One of the funniest moments for me was when Roseanne finds the pot that she thinks is David’s (it’s really hers from 20 years ago), and Roseanne, Dan and Jackie go into the bathroom and smoke it. They become totally paranoid.
Voice of Jackie (in bathtub) - “I got nobody. It’s just me. Just me and my ganga.”
Roseanne (surprised to hear her voice) - “Jackie, we thought you left!”
Jackie- “Is this the sink am I shrinking???”
HA!
Roseanne: Hey, DJ. Where you goin’?
DJ: Dad told me not to tell.
I missed the last season, and I always dismissed it as “the season where they just went crazy and the show went bad.” But now that I’ve seen a brief summary of every episode from that season, believe it or not, I’ve changed my mind.
I now see that season as the unfolding of a quasi-David-Lynch-ian psychological study of Rosanne’s grief upon losing her husband.
Anyone else find this a plausible reading?
-FrL0
Roseanne says as much in the last episode; she was miserable, so she imagined the kind of easy, care-free life she always saw on television. The episodes themselves are a mess, though: tonally all over the place, with silly, Carol Burnett Show-caliber parody alternating with some “social class” episodes of no insight or originality at all. It might have amounted to something if Roseanne had given her writers and producers more input, but that wasn’t in the cards by then.
(all quotes in this post paraphrased from memory)
Darlene: “He spends like an hour in the bathroom with the door locked; which means, he’s either really good at it…or really bad at it.”
Dan: “Oh, my god!”
Darlene: “Hey, DJ, I hear you got caught playing with your instrument in band.”
Dan (after DJ comes to the door and asks where his sleeping bag is): “Did you ever notice how strange that sounds? DJ, DJ, DeeJay…DEEEJAAAY…”
Roseanne (after sending DJ out to the garage to find his sleeping bag, and Roseanne forgets where she sent him): “Ohmigod, Dan, I’m the worst parent ever! I mean, what if something happens to him and he has to go to the hospital and he needs one of my organs and I can’t give it to him because my organs are all full of pot!!!”
Dan: “That’s not going to happen, dear.”
One of the best sitcoms ever, IMHO.
(Paraphrasing Roseanne)
'If there’s anything they hate more than white trash, it’s white trash with money."
When DJ was still really little:
Mom, was I an accident?
No, you weren’t an accident, you were a surprise.
What’s the difference?
An accident is something you wish hadn’t happened. A surprise is something you didn’t even know you wanted but when you get it you can’t imagine living without it.
<<or something to that effect; one of Roseanne’s rare forays into sweetness and wanting to make sure her little boy doesn’t feel bad–I always feel happy to see that exchange>>