# Rothbardian Pro-Wrestler wins election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 3, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055 "2018-08-03T17:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/41 "2018-08-04T16:02:22Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You can call it whatever you want, but the fact is the methods are distinct. This appealed to Jacobs, apparently. I can see why a theory that touts its own correctness, but has no predictive power and isn’t subject to correction, would appeal to a politician. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/42 "2018-08-04T18:48:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’ll find none of this in the works of Karl Marx, Ludwig von Mises, F.A. Hayek, or Murray Rothbard. They all just developed theories and then refused to test them in the real world. They wanted their followers to accept the truth of the theory on faith. Mm. Rothbard was a crackpot, but von Mises was serious enough; his ideas simply didn’t stand up with time. And that’s a fairly libelous characterization of Hayek, who was not only scientifically literate but close friends with Kar Popper of all folks. That out of the way: what Austrians tend to claim is not that you must take their ideas on faith, but that they can axiomatically prove broad truths about human behavior in the style of geometry. Humanity is (they hold) too unpredictable to admit of analysis via mathematical models which drive specific predictions for a given situation. But they believe they have an airtight logical framework that gives insight into human behavior, even if they don’t believe it possible to, eg, predict change in income due to some policy. It’s nonsense, but it’s more sophisticated nonsense than “take this on faith”. “I Was a Teenage Libertarian” and all that. Luckily _I_ grew out of it … ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/43 "2018-08-04T18:49:19Z")
Maybe if Rothbard could have done some math, he wouldn’t have regarded child rearing as a form of chattel slavery. I don’t see a direct line of logic between the two matters, but something has got to explain this bizarre psychopathy. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/44 "2018-08-05T00:19:52Z")
It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” This is no better than if Kane had been a Bernie Bro and a bunch of Fox News Trumpers came out to say they had never heard of Bernie or democratic socialism and that it must be really stupid because this big dumb guy got hit on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/45 "2018-08-05T00:39:47Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” This is no better than if Kane had been a Bernie Bro and a bunch of Fox News Trumpers came out to say they had never heard of Bernie or democratic socialism and that it must be really stupid because this big dumb guy got hit on the head. Well, I’m not. Like I said, I don’t really know much about it but the one example of a self-declared libertarian anarcho-capitalist that I recently encountered was a pretty good guy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/46 "2018-08-05T00:59:17Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” I totally disagree. Notwithstanding my joke about CTE, I regard him as silly because of his political views, not his prior career. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/47 "2018-08-05T01:18:26Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” This is no better than if Kane had been a Bernie Bro and a bunch of Fox News Trumpers came out to say they had never heard of Bernie or democratic socialism and that it must be really stupid because this big dumb guy got hit on the head. If Glenn Jacobs has a philosophy of governance and a platform, and he’s persuaded the people of Knox County to let him implement it, good luck to them. I just think we should keep an eye on it to see if it lives up to the expectations of its proponents. Lots of things sound good in theory, but don’t work in practice. As to the idea that “it’s not a model”, that just seems like handwaving, or that they’re preparing their excuses in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/48 "2018-08-05T04:03:16Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” This is no better than if Kane had been a Bernie Bro and a bunch of Fox News Trumpers came out to say they had never heard of Bernie or democratic socialism and that it must be really stupid because this big dumb guy got hit on the head. Not me. I never even mentioned Jacobs’ sports career. I’m ridiculing him because he’s a libertarian not because he’s wrestler. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/49 "2018-08-05T05:26:32Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” This is no better than if Kane had been a Bernie Bro and a bunch of Fox News Trumpers came out to say they had never heard of Bernie or democratic socialism and that it must be really stupid because this big dumb guy got hit on the head. I’ve only discussed Rothbard. I’m beginning to think you haven’t actually read through this thread. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/50 "2018-08-05T19:13:43Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I never heard of Murray Rothbard before you opened this thread, and I imagine I’m not alone. What do you think is next for the Rothbardians? Are there any other Rothbardians (other than Ron Paul, if he is one)? Dr.\* Rothbard has been mentioned in this forum before. (\* - Yes, this oaf has a doctorate, though it comes with an interesting story: “The [11-year] delay in receiving his PhD was due in part to conflict with his advisor Joseph Dorfman and in part to Arthur Burns rejecting his doctoral dissertation. Burns was a longtime friend of the Rothbard family and their neighbor at their Manhattan apartment building. It was only after Burns went on leave from the Columbia faculty to head President Eisenhower’s Council of Economic Advisors that Rothbard’s thesis was accepted and he received his doctorate.”) **ThelmaLou** quoted from an article relating Rothbard to Trumpism. Nested quotes don’t copy; I’ll just show the first and last of Thelma’s quote. > [@Stupid Republican idea of the day](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/36028): > > > [@](#): > > > > Not long before his death, Rothbard rejoiced when he saw in the emergence of David Duke and Pat Buchanan, in 1992, his long-held vision for America’s right and concluded that what was needed was more of the same:… > > > > In July 2016, [Justin] Raimondo wrote in The American Conservative, “Rothbard, who died in 1995, would’ve loved Donald Trump, and he seems to have foreseen his rise as if in a dream.” > > I wasn’t sure where to put this. I found this link on a wonderful site called [Arts & Letters Daily,](https://www.aldaily.com/) an aggregator of many, many publications and interesting sources. I warn you, once you go there, you’ll get lost in all of the topics. > > This article stopped me in my tracks today. > > [The Forgotten Man – On Murray Rothbard, philosophical harbinger of Trump and the alt-right](https://thebaffler.com/latest/the-forgotten-man-ganz) > This is a really LONG article, but fascinating. indeed, Rothbard seems to be the wellspring of the attitudes we are witnessing in the Republican Congress and on the right today. > I’d encourage anyone who has the time and interest to read the whole article. In a recent thread I asked **Mr. Farnaby** some questions about Rothbard’s views. In particular I was curious about the peculiar claim that he has a “solution” to the problem of external costs (e.g. tragedy of the commons). Here’s **Farnaby** ’s answer, which I found confusing. Revive that thread if it puzzles you as well. > [@How do libertarians deal with inelastic demand?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-libertarians-deal-with-inelastic-demand/811662/41): > > “… The main problem with classical libertarianism is that it doesn’t allow enough pollution. Under libertarian theory, pollution is a form of violent aggression that should be banned, as Murray Rothbard insisted numerous times. OK, but what about actual practice, once all those special interest groups start having their say? Historically, under the more limited government of the 19th century, it was big business that wanted to move away from unpredictable local and litigation-driven methods of control, and toward a more systematic regulatory approach at the national level. ” > > [Paul Krugman on Gary Johnson, libertarianism, and pollution - Marginal REVOLUTION](https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/09/paul-krugman-gary-johnson-libertarianism-pollution.html) And **jrodefeld** , now banned, made a tedious [thread about Rothbard eight years ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557309), but there was some comic relief. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/51 "2018-08-05T21:08:42Z")
lived in Knoxville for 2 years. It’s not like many sunbelt areas. Not growing fast and not many transplants from all over. The big place for transplants was Oak Ridge for nuke bomb research but most of that is gone now. That research started during WW 2 and was big for a while after that. The 3 big things there that people care about are: Tenn FB Tenn FB Tenn FB everything else is small compare to that . Town shuts down during those games , stadium holds over 100k. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/52 "2018-08-05T22:13:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **actualliberalnotoneofthose** : > > It seems like the whole thread, other than OP and his subsequent posts, consists of “Hey, let’s shit on all of libertarianism because this guy is a pro wrestler and must be stupid.” Hey, all I know about Rothbard is what I’ve read in this thread. But it’s the OP himself who is telling us that Rothbardian economics can’t model reality and can’t make predictions, because apparently math is too hard. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/53 "2018-08-05T22:36:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Dr.\* Rothbard has been mentioned in this forum before. Ok, thanks for that. I guess I’ll make the excuse that I missed previous discussions on the topic due to my chronic eye-glazing issues. > [@](#): > > And **jrodefeld** , now banned, made a tedious [thread about Rothbard eight years ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557309), but there was some comic relief. I read the first few posts by the OP and felt an instant migraine coming on. “Dismal Science” indeed, except it’s not even science. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/54 "2018-08-05T23:41:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > “Once you come across Rothbard, it’s all over with. The arguments he makes are so logical and they’re so faultless that you really can’t disagree with him.” This sounds like the kind of thing college sophomores say after reading their first Ayn Rand novel. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/55 "2018-08-06T14:41:13Z")
So is he going to use pyro at all his political events? In all seriousness though, pro wrestlers make really good politicians. Good at public speaking and the absurdities necessary to be a politician don’t bother them. Comedians too. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/56 "2018-08-06T14:42:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hey, all I know about Rothbard is what I’ve read in this thread. But it’s the OP himself who is telling us that Rothbardian economics can’t model reality and can’t make predictions, because apparently math is too hard. Yes I believe those were my exact words, “math is too hard”. Sterling contribution as usual. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/57 "2018-08-06T14:51:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hey, all I know about Rothbard is what I’ve read in this thread. But it’s the OP himself who is telling us that Rothbardian economics can’t model reality and can’t make predictions, because apparently math is too hard. > [@septimus](#): > > Dr.\* Rothbard has been mentioned in this forum before. > > (\* - Yes, this oaf has a doctorate, though it comes with an interesting story: “The [11-year] delay in receiving his PhD was due in part to conflict with his advisor Joseph Dorfman and in part to Arthur Burns rejecting his doctoral dissertation. Burns was a longtime friend of the Rothbard family and their neighbor at their Manhattan apartment building. It was only after Burns went on leave from the Columbia faculty to head President Eisenhower’s Council of Economic Advisors that Rothbard’s thesis was accepted and he received his doctorate.”) > > **ThelmaLou** quoted from an article relating Rothbard to Trumpism. Nested quotes don’t copy; I’ll just show the first and last of Thelma’s quote. > In a recent thread I asked **Mr. Farnaby** some questions about Rothbard’s views. In particular I was curious about the peculiar claim that he has a “solution” to the problem of external costs (e.g. tragedy of the commons). Here’s **Farnaby** ’s answer, which I found confusing. Revive that thread if it puzzles you as well. > And **jrodefeld** , now banned, made a tedious [thread about Rothbard eight years ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557309), but there was some comic relief. The Republican Party taxes hugely, spends infinitely, badgers the central bank for more inflation, levies protectionist tariffs, rabidly supports all forms of corporate welfare, commits atrocities across the globe, maintains garrisons on the outskirts of the empire for decades, institutes a domestic terror in the form of the war on drugs, spies on its citizens without limit, and in general violates personal liberty at every turn. If someone is trying to link that with Rothbard, they are either working for the Kochs, or they seriously need to have their head examined. What is Robert Reich’s solution for external costs? Maybe Econ Marvel Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, over whom you were fawning, has a solution. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/58 "2018-08-06T14:56:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Sterling contribution as usual. Perhaps this would be a good time for you to finally summarize how Rothbard’s ideas solve the problem of the Tragedy of the Commons. Pay particular attention to whether his solution could possibly apply in the real world. (I myself can sympathize with some hyperlibertarian views _in the abstract_, imagining them applied to some strange extraterrestrial culture. But political science is the study of real-world solutions for human society.) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/59 "2018-08-06T14:59:23Z")
I never submitted that Rothbard has a solution to external costs. Rather he would say pollution in a free society would not be an external cost due to the extension and adequate recognition of property rights. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055/60 "2018-08-06T15:38:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I never submitted that Rothbard has a solution to external costs. Rather he would say pollution in a free society would not be an external cost due to the extension and adequate recognition of property rights. So, when I develop emphysema from dirty air my heirs sue a specific company 200 miles away, if it still even exists, that polluted 10 years ago for the 0.07% pro-rated cost of my disease? And the evidence is adjudicated by … whom, again? Got it, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rothbardian-pro-wrestler-wins-election/819055.md?page=4)