# ROTK: An Oscar for Serkis? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832 "2003-12-18T19:57:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/1 "2003-12-18T19:57:59Z")
The Academy don’t give Oscars for CGI. Is Serkis’s non-CGI performance in ROTK sufficient excuse for the Academy to give him Best Supporting Actor? His soliloquy in ROTK wasn’t quite the tour-de-force of The Two Towers, but it was pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/2 "2003-12-18T20:02:57Z")
I thought that this film proved he didn’t deserve it from TT. Not that his live action acting wasn’t adequate, but it was just that: good but not great. When he was Gollum, however, he was spectacular. But I think as much of that was the CGI team as it was Selkis. After the TT, it was said that more of the success of Gollum was Selkis’s as it was the CGI guys. I think after seeing Selkis on his own, it is clear that while the character was INCREDIBLE without Selkis’s EXCELLENT voice work, enough of it is the work of the CGI team to take some luster off Selkis’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/3 "2003-12-18T21:26:53Z")
I’d bet on Sean Astin for Best Supporting actor for this one. For the nominmation, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/4 "2003-12-19T12:07:54Z")
“The Academy don’t give Oscars for CGI.” I’ve heard this before. Is this a rule, or is it just something that hasn’t happened yet? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/5 "2003-12-19T13:30:08Z")
Sean Astin deserves the Oscar more. They’ll give the nomination to Ian McKellen, though. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/6 "2003-12-19T13:40:01Z")
I rate Astin/Samwise for Best Actor. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/7 "2003-12-19T14:12:59Z")
I started a thread on this last year after TTT came out. From what others posted, it seems it is within the rules that an actor can be nominated for Best Actor or Best Supporting Actor for doing the voice of an animated character. It just hasn’t ever happened. I haven’t seen ROTK yet, but I think that if Serkis didn’t get a nomination last year, he won’t get one now. [Link to previous thread on this topic.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153761&highlight=andy+serkis+oscar) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/8 "2003-12-20T03:09:42Z")
I remember the last thread, and I _still_ don’t get why people think he gave an oscar worthy preformance in any of the three movies. He’s not bad as the voice of Gollum, but nothing special. Lots of people do funny voices with emotion behind them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/9 "2003-12-20T04:59:31Z")
The difference is that he physically acted the character, **elfkin**. > [@](#): > > _Achernar wrote_ > I’ve heard this before. Is this a rule, or is it just something that hasn’t happened yet? > [@](#): > > _Tangent wrote_ > From what others posted, it seems it is within the rules that an actor can be nominated for Best Actor or Best Supporting Actor for doing the voice of an animated character. It just hasn’t ever happened. The Academy says he is ineligible because his character was computer-generated. So he wasn’t eligible last year, and I can’t imagine he would be this year. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/10 "2003-12-20T05:34:38Z")
Sean Astin, totally. I was convinced the instant he said, “I can’t carry it for you… but I can carry _you_!” Then again, I’m an old softie for friendship (I think it’s more important than family, in some cases) and I’ve never seen a more succint, to-the-point statement of what being a friend is all about. _sniff sniff_ ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/11 "2003-12-20T06:28:04Z")
I would think Serkis would eligible because voice actors are eligible for nominations. Ellen DeGeneres is a dark horse nominee for “Finding Nemo” according to one report. What would the difference between an animated fish (created by a computer) and a CGI Gollum? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/12 "2003-12-21T23:41:22Z")
Billy Boyd is the most worthy nomination for an acting nod in this one. ---
**Author:** ![raizok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4491bb/32.png) [@raizok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raizok)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/13 "2003-12-22T05:19:01Z")
I hated Andy Serkis when he did the live-action scene. Same with Deagle (sp?). I think they made a mistake casting those two, but since Serkis was already Gollum, it would be an insult not to give him that role. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/14 "2003-12-22T14:54:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > I would think Serkis would eligible because voice actors are eligible for nominations. Ellen DeGeneres is a dark horse nominee for “Finding Nemo” according to one report. > > What would the difference between an animated fish (created by a computer) and a CGI Gollum? The difference, as Marley23 has already pointed out, is that Andy Serkis physically acted the character, thus providing two benefits: - in a minor way, he allowed the other actors something to focus on. Ian Mckellen had to do the confrontation with the Balrog by looking at a tennis ball suspended above him. :eek: - in a major way, he provided the CGI boffins with both physical and facial prompts. He wore a motion-capture suit throughout, which meant his actions formed the basis for the CGI. Plus there is a sequence on the TT EE DVD (if you see what I mean!) which shows the original film of Serkis acting in close-up, compared to the final CGI facial expressions of Gollum. Practically identical. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/15 "2003-12-22T20:37:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*The difference, as Marley23 has already pointed out, is that Andy Serkis physically acted the character, thus providing two benefits: > > - in a minor way, he allowed the other actors something to focus on. Ian Mckellen had to do the confrontation with the Balrog by looking at a tennis ball suspended above him. :eek: > > - in a major way, he provided the CGI boffins with both physical and facial prompts. He wore a motion-capture suit throughout, which meant his actions formed the basis for the CGI. Plus there is a sequence on the TT EE DVD (if you see what I mean!) which shows the original film of Serkis acting in close-up, compared to the final CGI facial expressions of Gollum. Practically identical. \*\* I think you misunderstood **BobT’s** question. Read it again. If Ellen DeGeneres could be nominated for _Finding Nemo_, why couldn’t Serkis be nominated for his portrayal of Gollum? That’s what he meant by “what’s the difference?” \*\*(and I’m not sure that Ellen _could_ be nominated for her voice work, I’m just going on what others are saying here) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/16 "2003-12-22T21:30:41Z")
I can’t believe that Theoden wasn’t nominated for Best Supporting Actor for TTT. He was at least as good as Daniel Day-Lewis in Gangs of New York, and I would have been satisfied if the latter had at least **won**. (The two put in some of the best acting I have ever seen on screen.) He wasn’t as good in ROTK, but still better than Serkis in ROTK. I just can’t suspend my disbelief when he is in the “Gollum” character. When he is in Smeagol, he is a bit better. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/17 "2003-12-22T23:51:14Z")
Tangent, I think you misunderstood **my** post. Read it again. The difference between Nemo and Lord of the Rings is that Serkis not only did the voice, **but also provided all the character’s movements and much of the facial expressions.** ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/18 "2003-12-23T00:28:27Z")
I believe I found the rule governing who is eligible on the Academy’s website: > [@](#): > > 1. A performance by an actor or actress in any role shall be eligible for nomination either for the Best Performance in a Leading Role or for the Best Performance in a Supporting Role. If, however, all the dialogue has been dubbed by another actor, the performance shall not be eligible for award consideration. Singing which is dubbed will not affect the performer’s eligibility unless it constitutes the entire performance. The determination as to whether a role is a lead or support shall be made individually by members of the branch at the time of balloting. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/19 "2003-12-23T01:29:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*Tangent, > I think you misunderstood **my** post. Read it again. > > The difference between Nemo and Lord of the Rings is that Serkis not only did the voice, **but also provided all the character’s movements and much of the facial expressions.** \*\* Wouldn’t that make him _more_ eligible than her? ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832/20 "2003-12-23T02:07:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by watsonwil \* > \*\*Billy Boyd is the most worthy nomination for an acting nod in this one. \*\* I think Elijah Wood deserves a nomination for Best Actor as well as Billy, Ian, and Sean. Going to be an interesting Oscar show for sure! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-an-oscar-for-serkis/219832.md?page=2)