# ROTK spoiler question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852 "2003-12-13T23:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/1 "2003-12-13T23:33:53Z")
I just downloaded an ROTK TV spot from TORN, and am a little confused–I hope a Doper can help. In the TV spot/commercial, we see Pippin with a palantir, but I thought that storyline had been abandoned for ROTK (at least the theatrical version). What’s going on? Is it back in? Dare I hope for the Scouring of the Shire? Many thanks for any help that comes my way. ---
**Author:** ![Tremmie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Tremmie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tremmie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/2 "2003-12-14T00:04:06Z")
The only thing that was the scenes with Saruman, Pippin looking into the palantir was never out. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/3 "2003-12-14T00:09:44Z")
Yeah, the palantir scene is still in but no Scouring of the Shire. I did read in a review though, that there is a scene in the ending in the Shire but with very little dialogue. 3 more days!!! ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/4 "2003-12-14T00:14:49Z")
Excuse me. YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS! Thank you. Pip with the Palantir is such an amazing storyline in and of itself that I was heartbroken thinking it was cut. I’m so thrilled to hear it’s still in. Sadly, **dreamer** , it will be more like a week or so for me. ::sad face:: ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/5 "2003-12-14T00:15:03Z")
We gotta get Pippin to Minas Tirith, so the plot needs Pippin to look into the Pilantir so Sauron will think he has the Ring so Gandalf will (shadow) fax him to Minas Tirith. Got that? I just bought my tickets for Wednesday, 3:30pm. Woot! ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/6 "2003-12-14T00:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by squeegee \* > **Gandalf will (shadow) fax him** ::snicker:: You rule. It’s been a while since I’ve read LOTR, so I had forgotten how very central the palantir scene was. Thanks much. ---
**Author:** ![Baggins111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@Baggins111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baggins111)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/7 "2003-12-14T05:18:04Z")
Just saw the trailer on TV. The Palantir scene with Pip was definitely there. Leads me to believe that it will be in the movie. Way cool. By the way, watching SNL with Elija Wood. Funny opening monologue with Gollum… ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/8 "2003-12-14T06:42:15Z")
The Orthanc Palantir is rather essential to much of Aragorn’s plot in RotK - especially a poignant scene between he and Gandalf where Aragorn overcomes Gandalf’s misgivings. Backstory (sans spoilers): The Elf masters-of-craft, The Noldor and their patron Feanor, made all kinds of wondrous’ jewels, including -at least- seven of these palantiri - which are sorta like ‘crystal balls’ - they see things far away. Not quite as dazzling (or unpredictable) as Galadriel’s Well - but similar stuffs (Galadriel was Feanor’s cousin). Eventually, the Palantir were all in the hands of the Numenoreans - Men - Aragorn’s kin. That one was in Orthanc could not have been a suprise to even Gandalf. That Grima tossed it was funny. It was known that some of the other palantiri fell into Sauron’s hands. Our Fellowship rightly surmised that Saruman had been corrupted by Sauron. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/9 "2003-12-14T06:56:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corbomite \* > \*\*(Galadriel was Feanor’s cousin). \*\* Niece. But carry on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/10 "2003-12-14T07:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*Niece. > > But carry on. 😃 \*\* Galadriel is still _banned_ from Valinor! ::tosses:: a softball sized crystal orb at **jayjay** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![c\_carol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@c\_carol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_carol)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/11 "2003-12-14T13:41:21Z")
> [@](#): > > ::tosses:: a softball sized crystal orb at jayjay Anybody got a cite on just how big the palantiri are? For some reason, I always pictured them pretty big, roughly bowling-ball sized. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/12 "2003-12-14T15:48:48Z")
> [@](#): > > The seven Palantiri stones, (Those who watch far and wide) Fëanor (perhaps) made them in Eldamar in Aman in the Days of the Trees, it says " …and other crystals he made also, wherein things far away could be seen small but clear, as with the eyes of the eagles of Manwë…" Elendil brought them from Númenor to Middle-earth in the Downfall of Númenor in the S.A.3319. The Palantiri was given to Elendils heir as a gift from the Eldar. The Palantiri looked like; in rest; to be made of solid glass or crystal in deep black hue, and perfectly smooth spheres, the size was for the smallest about 1 feet and the great stones ( nr. 3 + 4 ) much larger and so heawy they couldnt be lifted by one man. They were standing on round tables made of black marble. [http://www.annalsofarda.dk/annals-of-arda/Object-index-tables/Object/Palantiri.htm](http://www.annalsofarda.dk/annals-of-arda/Object-index-tables/Object/Palantiri.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/13 "2003-12-14T18:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corbomite \* > \*\*Galadriel is still _banned_ from Valinor! > > ::tosses:: a softball sized crystal orb at **jayjay** 😉 \*\* Galadriel’s ban was lifted at the end of the Third Age: > [@](#): > > The Exiles were allowed to return – save for a few chief actors in the rebellion, of whom at the time of _The Lord of the Rings_ only Galadriel remained. At the time of her Lament in Lorien she believed this to be perennial. Hence she concludes her lament with a wish or prayer that Frodo may as a special grace be granted a purgatorial (but not penal) sojourn in Eressea, the solitary isle in sight of Aman, though for her the way is closed. Her prayer was granted – but also her personal ban was lifted, in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her. So at the end we see her taking ship. (From a 1967 letter by JRRT, as quoted in _Unfinished Tales_, p. 240) Somewhere in the related text CJT comments that it was not a case of her “transferring her ticket to Frodo” but rather the decision of the Valar as transmitted through Gandalf. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/14 "2003-12-14T18:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Corbomite \* > \*\*Galadriel is still _banned_ from Valinor! > > ::tosses:: a softball sized crystal orb at **jayjay** 😉 \*\* Galadriel’s ban was lifted at the end of the Third Age: > [@](#): > > The Exiles were allowed to return – save for a few chief actors in the rebellion, of whom at the time of _The Lord of the Rings_ only Galadriel remained. At the time of her Lament in Lorien she believed this to be perennial. Hence she concludes her lament with a wish or prayer that Frodo may as a special grace be granted a purgatorial (but not penal) sojourn in Eressea, the solitary isle in sight of Aman, though for her the way is closed. Her prayer was granted – but also her personal ban was lifted, in reward for her services against Sauron, and above all for her rejection of the temptation to take the Ring when offered to her. So at the end we see her taking ship. (From a 1967 letter by JRRT, as quoted in _Unfinished Tales_, p. 240) Somewhere in the related text CJT comments that it was not a case of her “transferring her ticket to Frodo” but rather the decision of the Valar as transmitted through Gandalf. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/15 "2003-12-14T18:42:04Z")
There’s a fairly long essay on the Palantiri in _Unfinished Tales_ as well. Where Elendil placed the seven stones and their fates were as follows: Emyn Beraid (Tower Hills), border of Arnor and Lindon – still extant after LOTR ends; only displayed the Undying Lands, not used in communication Annuminas, Arnor – lost in Ice Bay of Forochel during Arvedui’s shipwreck, 1975 TA Amon Sul, Arnor – ditto Osgiliath, Gondor – lost into Anduin during Kin-Strife, 1437 TA Minas Ithil, Gondor – removed by Sauron to Barad Dur 2002 TA, presumably destroyed in fall of Barad Dur, end of TA Minas Anor/Tirith, Gondor – still in existence; evidently “warped” by Denethor’s self-immolation, so as not to be useful Orthanc, Gondorian exclave of Isengard, east Rohan – still in existence (see ROTK for its detailed history) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/16 "2003-12-14T18:51:16Z")
Just as an aside: One of the reasons (Per JRRT) that Cirdan was the wisest elf in middle-earth was because of his use of the palantir of Emyn Beriad to communicate with the elves of Eressëa. He gained great wisdom from it. Also he was one of the elves who awakened at Cuivienen. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/17 "2003-12-14T19:06:50Z")
So I saw the movie last week and I wouldn’t have huge hopes for the Palantir scene as essential to the Aragorn plot or even the Sauron thinks Aragorn has the ring plot. Those elements are rather glossed over. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/18 "2003-12-15T01:59:28Z")
Hey, **BuckleberryFerry** , you may have already seen it, but just in case not, check out another clip listed on [this](http://students.washington.edu/mmccain/temp/temp.html) website. The Pippin/Palantir clip is there as well, but look at the Gollum/Sam/Frodo one. Nice idea of Peter Jackson’s, there. ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/19 "2003-12-15T02:29:47Z")
**pugluvr** , I can’t play any of the clips there for some reason…thank you for the thought, though. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852/20 "2003-12-15T07:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dangerosa \* > So I saw the movie last week and I wouldn’t have huge hopes for the Palantir scene as essential to the Aragorn plot or even the Sauron thinks Aragorn has the ring plot. Those elements are rather glossed over. Perhaps they will be in the Extended Edition DVD? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rotk-spoiler-question/218852.md?page=2)