# Routine traffic stop, officer shot 4 times in the head, "self defense" (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499 "2008-07-14T21:08:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/1 "2008-07-14T21:08:48Z")
A local police officer was [shot to death](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/officers_gun_remained_holstere.html) in the town next to mine the other night, during a routine traffic stop. Not by some maniac driving through but by a dude who actually lived in the town. It’s a fucking tragedy for sure. Everyone is just stunned. What’s a worse tragedy is that the driver is [pleading self defense](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/lawyer_for_thompson_claims_sel.html). Four shots to the head…self defense… I’ve never had to express recreational outrage before. How do I go about it? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/2 "2008-07-14T21:14:33Z")
Did the officer have his vehicle’s video camera turned on? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/3 "2008-07-14T21:18:46Z")
I hope that wasn’t a routine traffic stop. ---
**Author:** ![shamrock227](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@shamrock227](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamrock227)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/4 "2008-07-14T21:20:33Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] Did the officer have his vehicle’s video camera turned on? Marc [/QUOTE] unfortunately, no. > [@](#): > > Miktarian’s car was equipped with a dashboard camera but it was not turned on at the time of the shooting, Noga said. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/5 "2008-07-14T21:22:37Z")
Was it SOP to have it turned on, or is it turned on at the discretion of the officer? It’s funny how the number of bullets suddenly matter when it’s the officer getting shot, but not the other way around… (based on the comments on the news page) No more details on the self-defense plea? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/6 "2008-07-14T21:27:12Z")
To be outraged at this, I’d have to feel fairly certain that the shooting wasn’t in self-defense. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/7 "2008-07-14T21:29:07Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] What’s a worse tragedy is that the driver is [pleading self defense](http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/lawyer_for_thompson_claims_sel.html). Four shots to the head…self defense… I’ve never had to express recreational outrage before. How do I go about it? [/QUOTE] With all due respect to your outrage, and to the family of the office, who my heart goes out to, if it was the other way round and he’d shot the motorist, you can bet the officer and/or his attorney would be citing self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/8 "2008-07-14T21:30:24Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] With all due respect to your outrage, and to the family of the office, who my heart goes out to, if it was the other way round and he’d shot the motorist, you can bet the officer and/or his attorney would be citing self-defense. [/QUOTE] And instead of 4 times, the guy would have been perforated at least a couple of dozen times. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/9 "2008-07-14T21:36:16Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I hope that wasn’t a routine traffic stop. [/QUOTE] I am _so_ going to Heck for laughing at this. Although I also agree with the more serious underlying sentiment. But I still laughed. ---
**Author:** ![QuercusMax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/8baadc/32.png) [@QuercusMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuercusMax)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/10 "2008-07-14T21:44:51Z")
I actually live about a mile from where this happened. The thing that’s so strange about this whole thing is that generally this is a pretty quiet area (as far as I know), mainly residential - it’s not in the “bad part of town”. Twinsburg does have one, of sorts, but it’s nowehere near there. For the most part, the most that ever happens is just teenage mischief during the summer - the officer probably figured it was just some kid. The guy was pulled over just a few doors down from his house. My guess is we’ll find out he had some type of mental disorder. Twinsburg crime stats: [Twinsburg Crime Statistics: Ohio (OH) - CityRating.com](http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Twinsburg&state=OH) ---
**Author:** ![SomeUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@SomeUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeUserName)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/11 "2008-07-14T21:52:38Z")
I work in Twinsburg and I was pretty shocked to hear about this shooting. Twinsburg has always been a low crime area IMO, at least lower crime than the city I live in. One article I read said that he was a canine unit and did the traffic stop on the way to another scene that had dispatched the canine unit. It makes me wonder what the driver was doing that was so bad that he decided to pull him over while on the way to another scene. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/12 "2008-07-14T22:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=SomeUserName] One article I read said that he was a canine unit and did the traffic stop on the way to another scene that had dispatched the canine unit. It makes me wonder what the driver was doing that was so bad that he decided to pull him over while on the way to another scene. [/QUOTE] I don’t know, but apparently it was worth his life. I’m getting a blame the victim vibe from this thread and I’ve got to say, it makes me a little sick. You don’t like the cops, that’s fine. The next time some nutbar like this murdering scumbag comes a’knockin, call a crackhead. With his gun in the holster, we’re gonna find out that the cop threatened to open the squad door and let his dog out, so this dirtball decides to shoot the cop 4 TIMES IN THE HEAD. That’s not self defense, that’s vengance. Plus, he’ll be a hero in the joint. Sounds like another candidate for the woodchipper. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/13 "2008-07-14T22:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I don’t know, but apparently it was worth his life. I’m getting a blame the victim vibe from this thread and I’ve got to say, it makes me a little sick… Sounds like another candidate for the woodchipper. [/QUOTE] What he said. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/14 "2008-07-14T22:13:26Z")
I agree that it’s more shocking because it was a cop who was shot…but **buttonjockey** said it right - 4 shots to the head is not self defense. No matter who you are. I also think it’s odd that the kid lived in Twinsburg since he was 12 but graduated from Bedford High School. Bedford High school, while not the worst high school in the area, is not really one of those schools you make an effort to sneak in to when you live in Twinsburg. Twinsburg has fine schools and it’s a lot less tough than Bedford. I’m guessing maybe the kid had some behavioral problems and got sent to Bedford. Maybe not - maybe he had a great reason to go there…but it just seems odd. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/15 "2008-07-14T22:17:59Z")
Right now, we have no idea whether it was self-defense or not. His attorney says he talked to a witness, so maybe this defense has something to it. We certainly don’t know that it was _not_ self-defense, and i think it’s fishy that the officer didn’t have his camera turned on. We’ll see. As for the “blame the victim” vibe – that’s how it goes, without fail, every single time the police kill somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/16 "2008-07-14T22:35:55Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I’m getting a blame the victim vibe from this thread [/QUOTE] Your vibe sensors need tuning. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/17 "2008-07-14T22:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] As for the “blame the victim” vibe – that’s how it goes, without fail, every single time the police kill somebody. [/QUOTE] You planning on growing mushrooms, or something? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/18 "2008-07-14T22:50:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] …i think it’s fishy that the officer didn’t have his camera turned on. We’ll see. As for the “blame the victim” vibe – that’s how it goes, without fail, every single time the police kill somebody. [/QUOTE] Some [reports](http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/25399769.html?page=2&c=y) make it appear that that wasn’t down to the officer’s decision. > [@](#): > > The cruiser was an older model equipped with an inoperable camera. It’s hard hard to make sense of that peculiar phrasing, but that doesn’t seem very sinister to me. 911 and police band recordings will be released in a couple of days - that should give a (slightly) clearer picture of what happened. As it stands, though - I can’t readily imagine a plausible scenario apart from what it appears to be: Buddy was pulled over on suspicion of impaired driving, and his judgement _was_ impaired enough to make shooting a cop in the face seem like a practical response. “Self defense?” I can’t wait to hear that testimony, that’ll be fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/19 "2008-07-14T22:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] To be outraged at this, I’d have to feel fairly certain that the shooting wasn’t in self-defense. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Right now, we have no idea whether it was self-defense or not. His attorney says he talked to a witness, so maybe this defense has something to it. [/QUOTE] Either of you (or anyone else) want to paint a plausible scenario how it could’ve _been_ a case of self-defense? And I mean justified, “I am in imminent danger of being murdered by this uniformed police officer if I don’t kill him first” self-defense, and not “I really don’t want to go to jail today.” I’m having a little trouble imagining the former. Even if a cop has his gun trained on you (and reports I read said the cop’s gun was still in his holster) it doesn’t give you the right to start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/20 "2008-07-14T22:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] You planning on growing mushrooms, or something? [/QUOTE] What the fuck is this supposed to mean. You deny that blaming the victim is SOP for police shootings? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499.md?page=2)