# Routine traffic stop, officer shot 4 times in the head, "self defense" (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499 "2008-07-14T21:08:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/61 "2008-07-15T16:31:47Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Okay, that’s two… want to go for a third “lynching” metaphor, or can we stop building strawmen for a while? I don’t know what happened either, but was merely curious what sort of situation could plausibly represent justified self-defense, in killing a uniformed officer making a traffic stop in a patrol car—who (assuming the news reports bear out) had called for backup, had his weapon holstered, and had not released the police dog. Both your scenario (the latter one; ignoring the song lyrics for the time being) and **Frylock** ’s sound more like the result of temporary insanity or panic, rather than legitimate self-defense. If I shoot you because I’m convinced you’re the devil and you’re about to gore me with your trident, I rather doubt that would fly. [/QUOTE] Fair enough, and you are right. I had just latched on to these two posts: [QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Sounds like another candidate for the woodchipper [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=magellan01] What he said. [/QUOTE] but I am over it now… I agree that the most likely scenerio is a drunk, belligerant, kid/man with an attitude making a horrible mistake that tragically destroyed a family, killed a police officer that had done no wrong, and ruined his own life beyond recall. Even though there is a witness to the shooting, the self defense claim is highly doubtful to me with the information currently available. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/62 "2008-07-15T17:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] I’ve seen a report from the Department of Justice that says 95% of jurisdictions require the officer to file a report for whenever their weapon is discharged. [/QUOTE] Yep. That firearm barks just once and you’re guaranteed paperwork, no matter where the bullet ended up. Some departments might be lax on that, but those are the ones who don’t mind being sued and losing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/63 "2008-07-15T17:18:39Z")
[QUOTE=x-ray vision] What’s your point? Had the intent of the officers have been to kill, they would have continued to shoot regardless of whether or not the shoulder or leg was hit. They stopped shooting because the threat was removed. [/QUOTE] Okay. I didn’t see where you were going with that, but it makes sense now. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/64 "2008-07-15T18:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Either of you (or anyone else) want to paint a plausible scenario how it could’ve _been_ a case of self-defense? [/QUOTE] Ashford Thompson and his girlfriend are driving along Glenwood Drive on their way home with Patrolman Joshua Miktarian following behind. Thompson pulls into his driveway and Miktarian parks behind him. Thompson and his girlfriend remain seated in the vehicle as they’re aware a patrol car is in their driveway. Miktarian walks up to the driver’s side door and raps on the window. Thompson rolls it down. Thompson: May I help you officer? Miktarian: Did I tell you to speak, boy? Thompson: Excuse me? Miktarian: Keep your mouth shut unless I ask you a question. Who is that next to you? Thompson: That’s my girlfriend. Miktarian: Hey Cheryl. Step out of the car. Thompson: What? How did you… why do you want her to step out of the car? Miktarian: What did I tell you about keeping your mouth shut? Okay, now you step out of the car too. Thompson steps out of the car. Miktarian: Okay, turn around and put your hands on the roof. Thompson complies. At this point Miktarian removes his billy club and whacks Thompson across the back of his thighs with it. Miktarian: Now you’re going to get what you’ve had coming to you. Kiss your ass goodbye. Miktarian quickly reaches for his Glock model 17 but it is stuck in its holster. Thompson turns around and struggles with the officer. Still unable to un-holster his weapon, he succeeds in getting one of Thompson’s hands cuffed. Thompson is able retrieve his legally owned medium-caliber handgun from the inside of his sport’s coat. Afraid for his life, he fires four shots at Officer Miktarian, killing him. Thompson to girlfriend: Oh my God! I told you there was a hit out on me! Now do you believe me?! Wait.. how did he know your name?! Did you have something to do with this?! Girlfriend: No!.. I swear!.. I don’t know! Okay, maybe you won’t consider the above a _plausible_ scenario, but some other, maybe even similar, justifiable reason _could_ have resulted in Miktarian’s death. And I’m realy bored today. ---
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/65 "2008-07-15T18:58:30Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] They’re going to have to be really spiffy details to justify putting 4 bullets in a cop’s head, when the uniformed officer hasn’t drawn his own weapon, and was in the process of arresting you. Smart money in this case is on the shooter being drunk, belligerent, and making a tragically bad choice when faced with arrest. [/QUOTE] Eh, not taking sides here, but this is the same thing you hear all the time when some dude gets shot in the back or whatever by dozens of police bullets, yet quite often the police get exonerated. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/66 "2008-07-15T20:20:09Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] The technical term is ‘buck fever’. Also, it takes a relatively short time to empty said weapon. Faster than you think when you’re tweaking on adrenaline. It’s been established, see the NY cop shootings, that people can even _reload_ weapons without actually being aware, and continue firing. Now, is it just that a policeman will shoot a guy with more than a clip when he just pulled his wallet out? No. But it is what happens when you have an undisciplined shooter. We need more details… but emptying a gun in a conflict is not a surprising event. [/QUOTE] Ï think “buck fever” might be a valid factor in the scenario. I’d feel better about it if I knew more rounds were fired than the ones into the head, though. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/67 "2008-07-15T20:46:18Z")
Well, assuming he was firing from _inside_ the car, he’d be firing upwards at a fairly close person. Maybe he jammed it into the officer’s head and pulled the trigger a lot. I dunno. I can work out scenarios that it’d make sense in. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/68 "2008-07-16T14:45:28Z")
[QUOTE=arseNal] Eh, not taking sides here, but this is the same thing you hear all the time when some dude gets shot in the back or whatever by dozens of police bullets, yet quite often the police get exonerated. [/QUOTE] It all depends on the believability of the self defense angle. A cop approaching an unknown individual who “matches” the description of a serial rapist has a plausable argument (IMHO) that he feared for his safety when the person reached for his wallet (the Amadou Diallo shooting from NYC). A guy pulled over by a marked police cruiser, in the process of being arrested by a uniformed officer, who hadn’t drawn his gun, I’m not buying the “I thought he was going to kill me” angle, not without some really surprising and reliable testimony. E-Sabbath, the guy did have one handcuff on, so I doubt he was still in the car when the shooting happened. ---
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/69 "2008-07-16T15:51:55Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] It all depends on the believability of the self defense angle. A cop approaching an unknown individual who “matches” the description of a serial rapist has a plausable argument (IMHO) that he feared for his safety when the person reached for his wallet (the Amadou Diallo shooting from NYC). [/QUOTE] Well, as you say, that’s your opinion. Many other people were of the opinion that it’s not very believable that a wallet would be mistaken for a gun. Nor did it sound to them like self-defense after it was found that Diallo had been shot twice in the bottom of his foot. Just sayin’ .. I think believability is pretty subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/70 "2008-07-16T22:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Well, assuming he was firing from _inside_ the car, he’d be firing upwards at a fairly close person. Maybe he jammed it into the officer’s head and pulled the trigger a lot. I dunno. I can work out scenarios that it’d make sense in. [/QUOTE] He had the officer’s handcuffs around one hand, though - I don’t think that the officer would have handcuffed him inside the car, so I’m presuming he was outside. Of course, I can work up hypothetical scenarios where it would be completely legit. I just think the facts laid out so far (which, to the reactionaries, I know might well not be all of them) are pretty one-sided against it. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/71 "2008-07-16T23:54:12Z")
If anyone is following the details as they are released, [http://www.ohio.com/news/top\_new/25524364.html](http://www.ohio.com/news/top_new/25524364.html) is a link to what was released tonight about radio transmissions, etc. Still not enough to reach a definite conconclusion, but all pretty damning facts against the shooter. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/72 "2008-07-17T01:03:50Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] If anyone is following the details as they are released, [http://www.ohio.com/news/top\_new/25524364.html](http://www.ohio.com/news/top_new/25524364.html) is a link to what was released tonight about radio transmissions, etc. Still not enough to reach a definite conconclusion, but all pretty damning facts against the shooter. [/QUOTE] Especially curious is that two of the shots appear to have been fired while the officer was already on the ground, judging by the fact that they were lodged in the dirt under his head. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/73 "2008-07-17T01:18:24Z")
I really hope Ashford Thompson is not black, or else Al Sharpton and the rest of the clowns are going to come hopping out of the clown car, and this thing is going to turn into a circus, regardless of whether or not the shooter was justified. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/74 "2008-07-17T01:42:29Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] I really hope Ashford Thompson is not black, or else Al Sharpton and the rest of the clowns are going to come hopping out of the clown car, and this thing is going to turn into a circus, regardless of whether or not the shooter was justified. [/QUOTE] He’s Black. But, there’s no lack of white idiots out there. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/75 "2008-07-17T01:45:06Z")
Very true, of course, but the white idiots rarely have activists jump out of the woodwork and defend whatever idiotic thing they did by saying that they were set up by racists. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/76 "2008-07-17T01:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] I’ve seen a report from the Department of Justice that says 95% of jurisdictions require the officer to file a report for whenever their weapon is discharged. [/QUOTE] Does that mean that 1 in 20 jurisdictions in this country _don’t_ require an officer to file paperwork when their weapon is discharged in the line of duty? 'Cause I’d be pretty appalled if there were jurisdictions where cops could fire their service weapon while on duty and not report it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/77 "2008-07-17T04:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Very true, of course, but the white idiots rarely have activists jump out of the woodwork and defend whatever idiotic thing they did by saying that they were set up by racists. [/QUOTE] So do the black idiots. Of all the African-Americans charged with a felony in the last five years, how many did Al Sharpton get his panties in a bunch over? A dozen at most, right? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/78 "2008-07-17T22:16:54Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] So do the black idiots. Of all the African-Americans charged with a felony in the last five years, how many did Al Sharpton get his panties in a bunch over? A dozen at most, right? [/QUOTE] Yeah. The phony-baloney “outrage” won’t show up until they give the shooter the death penalty, which if he’s found guilty, and if Ohio still metes out, will be more than well deserved. [QUOTE=appleciders] Does that mean that 1 in 20 jurisdictions in this country don’t require an officer to file paperwork when their weapon is discharged in the line of duty? 'Cause I’d be pretty appalled if there were jurisdictions where cops could fire their service weapon while on duty and not report it. [/QUOTE] No, it means that some didn’t answer the survey, some don’t know if they have a policy and some have one but don’t enforce it. I would bet you everything in your pockets that 100% of police agencies in the US HAVE a policy, but less than that actually enforce it… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499/79 "2008-07-18T02:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] No, it means that some didn’t answer the survey, some don’t know if they have a policy and some have one but don’t enforce it. I would bet you everything in your pockets that 100% of police agencies in the US HAVE a policy, but less than that actually enforce it… [/QUOTE] Right. I didn’t see any margin of error with that report. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/routine-traffic-stop-officer-shot-4-times-in-the-head-self-defense-ro/456499.md?page=3)