# Rove takes a walk **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2006, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556 "2006-06-13T12:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/1 "2006-06-13T12:05:39Z")
Special proescutor Fitzgerald’s office has announced there will be no indictments against Karl Rove. Treasonous vermin everywhere are rejoicing. Now we can safely out CIA agents at will! For the rest of us, it’s Biz as Usual under the Bush Administration. The clearly guilty aren’t even charged, the uncharged and untried are jailed for years and commit suicide, and it’s “an act of warrfare.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/2 "2006-06-13T12:11:17Z")
Neener neener neener. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/3 "2006-06-13T12:20:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Neener neener neener. You’ve summed up nearly six years of your posts in three words. Congratualtions. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/4 "2006-06-13T12:21:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Neener neener neener. > > Regards, > Shodan Because malfeasance at the highest levels of government is equivalent to a playground shove-fight. Actually, that explains a hell of a lot about the current Republican crop… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/5 "2006-06-13T12:26:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Because malfeasance at the highest levels of government is equivalent to a playground shove-fight. No, because despite six years of non-stop whining from you bozos about all the terrible crimes Rove has committed, you cannot come up with a scrap of evidence that will stand up in court. And yet you cling to your delusions nonetheless. Which, obviously, demonstrates that all this vaunted skepticism and hard-boiled commitment to the cause of justice and truth from far-left fat heads such as yourself is window dressing. You care about nothing except your drooling hatred of all things Bush-related. And thus your foolishness is a fitting subject for contempt. You lose. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/6 "2006-06-13T13:01:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, because despite six years of non-stop whining from you bozos about all the terrible crimes Rove has committed, you cannot come up with a scrap of evidence that will stand up in court. Sounds just like one of those Mafia guys saying, "Hey, he’s never been _convicted!_ I mean, c’mon, Shodan, there’s never been any doubt that Rove was outing Plame to newsmen. The only doubt was whether our weird-ass legal definition of treason would make it possible to convict him for doing so, esp. given his access to the best legal counsel. Doesn’t change what Rove did, or what he is, which is a verminous traitor. An unconvicted verminous traitor. I’m sure you’re very proud. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/7 "2006-06-13T13:10:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Neener neener neener. Ha ha ha, American intelligence gathering capabilities have been reduced and our informants no longer trust that their contacts in the CIA won’t be outed for political reasons. Ho ho ho, Plame’s identity was leaked because her husband had the nerve to point out that Bush was lying to get us into a war. Man, what a knee-slappin’ good laugh that is. > [@Shodan](#): > > You lose. And who says that there’s a problem with “party before country” these days? Not the Republican leadership, that’s who. And, simply, a side issue… I do trust you realize that there’s a world of difference between someone being guilty, and a prosecutor being able to get a conviction? Or do you think, for instance, that people are “delusional” and “hate all things OJ related” if they think OJ Simpson killed some folks but got off on the charges? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/8 "2006-06-13T13:13:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You lose. Wait till November. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/9 "2006-06-13T13:14:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, because despite six years of non-stop whining from you bozos about all the terrible crimes Rove has committed, you cannot come up with a scrap of evidence that will stand up in court. I know I shouldn’t take the bait, but I will. So how do you explain 6 years of special prosecutors investigating every aspect of Bill and Hillary Clinton’s dealings? Oh, wait. You can’t. There were, for the most part, no crimes. And no crimes committed by the Clintons. > [@](#): > > And yet you cling to your delusions nonetheless. > > Which, obviously, demonstrates that all this vaunted skepticism and hard-boiled commitment to the cause of justice and truth from far-left fat heads such as yourself is window dressing. You care about nothing except your drooling hatred of all things Bush-related. > > And thus your foolishness is a fitting subject for contempt. > > You lose. > > Regards, > Shodan Uh, no. We don’t lose. The difference between us and you is that, for all the Pubbie hand-wringing over Clinton’s alleged misdeeds, Bush and others in his administration might actually be guilty of various and sundry crimes. Not perjury-over-a-blowjob crime, either, but serious prison-time crime. And, unlike Clinton’s alleged lie over his relationship with Ms. Lewinsky, the Bush Administration’s lies cost tens of thousands of lives, billions of dollars of contract money wasted, and the goodwill of most of the world. BUT WAIT! CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB! ONOZ! OMFG!!!11!!! Robin, who is fucking sick and tired of the whole partisan one-down-manship game. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/10 "2006-06-13T13:30:53Z")
Well, actually yes, we do lose. All of us. Including Shodan. Sad, really. Not particularly unexpected, but sad nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/11 "2006-06-13T14:13:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Neener neener neener. I suggest that if you support a traitor in such a way, that you are not only a traitor yourself, but one with the brains of a six year old. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/12 "2006-06-13T14:28:16Z")
Nobody knows what Rove did or didn’t do because we weren’t in the room. None of us have access to the corridors of power, so we don’t know what goes on. So all we are left with are our preconceived notions about who is right and who is wrong…and we filter events to fit that prism. People on the left view Karl Rove as this evil mastermind…the “man behind the curtain”. His success is due to the misdeeds of his blackhearted henchmen. So when Fitzgerald passes on him, it’s not because he’s not guilty…heavens no. He’s evil so he must have done something! He just hasn’t been caught yet! People on the right had a similar view of Bill Clinton. When he escaped the investigations, people on the left said it was because he was righteous and pure and the prosecutors were evil. Folks on the right said “That just means he got away with it!”. It all depends on whose ox is being gored. Ideology uber alles. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/13 "2006-06-13T14:39:00Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I mean, c’mon, Shodan, there’s never been any doubt that Rove was outing Plame to newsmen. And yet you can’t produce any evidence sufficient to even get an indictment. > [@MsRobyn](#): > > The difference between us and you is that, for all the Pubbie hand-wringing over Clinton’s alleged misdeeds, Bush and others in his administration might actually be guilty of various and sundry crimes. Actually, it is just the opposite. Clinton admitted that he had made false statements under oath, and the judge in his trial found that he had made false statements under oath, and he was disbarred as a result. So we know pretty clearly that Clinton is guilty. On the other hand, no evidence sufficient even for indictment can be produced against Rove. And yet, the accusations continue without a pause against him. Because, as I said, it was never about the evidence. Nor will lack of evidence ever deter a true fanatic from believing whatever he wants. It’s much like the crap about stealing the elections. Assume the conclusion, and then restate it regardless of anything else, louder and louder. > [@](#): > > And, simply, a side issue… I do trust you realize that there’s a world of difference between someone being guilty, and a prosecutor being able to get a conviction? And also a difference between not even being able to muster enough to bring this particular ham sandwich before a grand jury. I realize nothing can stop the ranting from the Usual Suspects. I can do no more than derive personal satisfaction from seeing y’all make fools of yourselves. Again. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/14 "2006-06-13T14:45:40Z")
Don’t count those chickens quite yet. [Truthout.org](http://Truthout.org) maintains there is a sealed indictment under the curious heading of [Sealed vs. Sealed.](http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/061206Z.shtml) . It is entirely possible that Rove already has been indicted. If Rove does indeed walk, it is a tribute to the professionalism of Patrick Fitzgerald. If he could not come up with enough evidence to have a reasonable chance of getting a conviction, then the proper thing to do is not indict. Some prosecutors (like Starr) feel compelled to keep at it until they have something, no matter how small or removed from the scope of the investigation, to throw a charge at someone. At least Fitzgerald has the integrity to know when to fold the tent and pack up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/15 "2006-06-13T14:53:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Don’t count those chickens quite yet. [Truthout.org](http://Truthout.org) maintains there is a sealed indictment under the curious heading of [Sealed vs. Sealed.](http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/061206Z.shtml) . It is entirely possible that Rove already has been indicted. Hush! We’re just baiting \*\*Shodan \*\* until this shoe drops! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/16 "2006-06-13T14:56:25Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Doesn’t change what Rove did, or what he is, which is a verminous traitor. An unconvicted verminous traitor. I’m sure you’re very proud. I suppose that depends on what your definition of “is” is. Oh, come on. Someone had to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/17 "2006-06-13T15:10:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It is entirely possible that Rove already has been indicted. It’s also possible that the reason Rove is not a target for indictment is that he’s cut an immunity deal with Fitzgerald, that he has decided to save himself by turning on his masters, and that the sealed document contains criminal charges against Cheney, who seems to be the ultimate architect of the whole scheme. It’s also possible that Fitzgerald is a space alien who is conducting experiments on human psychology with an emphasis on perceptions of guilt. I think we should all just hang tight for a few weeks and see what happens. Otherwise we’re basically trying to interpret, like tea leaves, the isolated scraps of information that squeeze out from between the fingers of this clenched fist of an administration. Oh, and **Shodan** is a pig. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/18 "2006-06-13T15:15:19Z")
Hmm? I believe William Jefferson Clinton was **acquitted** by the United States Senate sitting as a Court for the Trial of Impeachments. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > If Rove does indeed walk, it is a tribute to the professionalism of Patrick Fitzgerald. If he could not come up with enough evidence to have a reasonable chance of getting a conviction, then the proper thing to do is not indict. Some prosecutors (like Starr) feel compelled to keep at it until they have something, no matter how small or removed from the scope of the investigation, to throw a charge at someone. At least Fitzgerald has the integrity to know when to fold the tent and pack up. Worth repeating. And nice to know that there is someone with the integrity and patriotism to put country above party. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/19 "2006-06-13T16:11:13Z")
My god, **Shodan** - you’re exactly what’s wrong with the two-party system (and American politics in general). “Party before Country” is NOT a good thing for America- it should be the other way around. The sad thing is that you’ll never realize it, since you’re too wrapped up into rooting for “your” side. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556/20 "2006-06-13T16:19:24Z")
Insisting that Rove is acually guilty and not being indicted simply because a conviction is unlikely is absurd. It’s not that difficult to convict on conspiracy charges or on lying under oath (what Libby is charged with). No one has been indicted for outing a CIA agent, and if the lesser charge of conspiracy or lying to the Grand Jury can’t stand up, then the it’s reasonable to assume that he didn’t do anything illegal. Now, that doesn’t prove he didn’t do anything illegal (in this matter), but insisting that he did is balatant partisanship, pure and simple. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rove-takes-a-walk/360556.md?page=2)