# Rove's racist push-poll against MCain: Is there any doubt Rove did it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915 "2005-07-24T12:45:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/21 "2005-07-24T23:40:07Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > **even sven** , McCain is a senator for Arizona. Not far, far away from California, but actually adjacent to it. The push poll in question, though, was done in South Carolina during the primary race. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/22 "2005-07-25T00:41:15Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > If I had proof, I wouldn’t have needed to open this thread to ask the question, would I? Then why do you call it “Rove’s racist push-poll against McCain?” ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/23 "2005-07-25T00:44:34Z")
Umm, because that’s the incident I’m asking about. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/24 "2005-07-25T00:47:20Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Umm, because that’s the incident I’m asking about. Calling it “Rove’s racist push-poll” sort of implies you already _have_ proof that he was involved. Which is it? Are you asking us if he did it? Or are you telling us? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/25 "2005-07-25T00:49:09Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Calling it “Rove’s racist push-poll” sort of implies you already _have_ proof that he was involved. Which is it? Are you asking us if he did it? Or are you telling us? Maybe for clarity, but he’s asked repeatedly and he hasn’t said “Rove did it” anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/26 "2005-07-25T00:53:02Z")
Yes, I actually have proof, but decided to act like I didn’t. Gotta get that post count up! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/27 "2005-07-25T00:56:38Z")
Perhaps if a mod removed “Rove’s” from the title, this would move forward? Although it doesn’t sound like there’s going to be a lot proof offered anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/28 "2005-07-25T01:05:04Z")
Well, my question was completely answered by **DMC** ’s link, so I don’t know if there’s any place to go. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/29 "2005-07-25T01:17:39Z")
I talked to my friend, and he says he remembers doing a push poll and the timing is right, but he does not remember the details. He says “illigit black child” doesn’t ring a bell, but that he can’t count it out. Sorry I’m not help =). ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/30 "2005-07-25T01:21:57Z")
That’s cool, thanks for investigating. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/31 "2005-07-25T01:22:05Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Calling it “Rove’s racist push-poll” sort of implies you already _have_ proof that he was involved. Which is it? Are you asking us if he did it? Or are you telling us? It’s an exercise in post-modern irony. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/32 "2005-07-25T02:30:56Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > McCain is a guy who enjoys media attention, and relished being a media darling. As a result, he played to the media and continuallyu drifted leftward during a campaign to win the Republican nomination. Even a rank amateur at politics could have (and SHOULD have) told him that was a stupid strategy. > > No matter which party you belong to, you HAVE to appeal to the hard core zealots of your party during the primary season, and THEN start moving to the center AFTER you’ve sewn up the nomination. If you do anything else, you’re an idiot. Do you believe that it is at all possible that McCain chose to run honestly displaying his beliefs and principles? That, win or lose, it was more important to him to run as himself? It is sadly accurate that those who chose to run in such a manner will almost always lose to those who chose to sell their souls. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/33 "2005-07-25T13:46:29Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Do you believe that it is at all possible that McCain chose to run honestly displaying his beliefs and principles? That, win or lose, it was more important to him to run as himself? > > It is sadly accurate that those who chose to run in such a manner will almost always lose to those who chose to sell their souls. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Even McCain recognized his mistake (too late), and afdter he’d already lostr every Southern state, he was going around assuring Republican voters “I’m a Reagan Republican.” Now, there are only two possibilities: a) He really IS a Reagan Republican (and he generally voted like one in the Senate) but chose to run from his record during the primary season, b) He was never really a Reagan Republican and merely pretended to be one in order to get elected in conservative Arizona. If it’s a, well then he IS as stupid as I stated earlier. And if it’s b, he was never a man of principle, since he sold out his more progressive ideals to get elected. Either way, it doesn’t speak well of him. Personally, as a conservative, I used to admire McCain, and he WAS my preferred candidate when he first entered the race. He did everything possible to alienate me and other conservatives during the primaries. If you want to win the nomination of a conservative party, but choose to run as a liberal, you’re ASKING to be rejected. To use a hypothetical counterexample, I think it would be wonderful if a liberal Democrat running for the Presidential nomination would bash Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, or to attack the excesses of labor unions… but since the unions and the black bloc are VERY important parts of the Democratic coalition, it would be suicidal for any candidate to do that. In short, it wouldn’t be noble and principled, it would be STUPID! Like McCain. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/34 "2005-07-25T13:56:35Z")
I would have had more repsect for McCain if he had kept Bush’s feet to the fire for the campaign deceit. There’s one book I would buy if he ever did a tell-all book. Rove probably did it. But he’s smart enough not to leave a trail Until he makes a big mistake (and perhaps he did in the CIA scandal), you won’t get a glove on him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/35 "2005-07-25T14:05:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I would have had more repsect for McCain if he had kept Bush’s feet to the fire for the campaign deceit. There’s one book I would buy if he ever did a tell-all book. > > Rove probably did it. But he’s smart enough not to leave a trail Until he makes a big mistake (and perhaps he did in the CIA scandal), you won’t get a glove on him. This is the one thing that bothers me about the Plame affair. Rove has always been very careful to distance himself from his dirty tricksters. Yet in the Plame case, he personally committed the treasonous acts. What was he thinking? And why did he break his rule about not getting personally involved in the dirty tricks after arranging them? And to answer the OP, there’s no way a reasonable person, looking at Rove’s record, could assume anyone other than Rove set up the racist push-poll. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/36 "2005-07-25T14:26:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Personally, as a conservative, I used to admire McCain, and he WAS my preferred candidate when he first entered the race. He did everything possible to alienate me and other conservatives during the primaries. If you want to win the nomination of a conservative party, but choose to run as a liberal, you’re ASKING to be rejected. How is attacking the religious right a liberal stance? I know my fair share of conservative Republicans who aren’t crazy about them. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915/37 "2005-07-25T15:34:57Z")
I remember the \*Newsweek \* coverage at the time, suggesting that it was a shadowy South Carolina conservative group loosely affiliated with Bush - or that supported Bush for President and was tied into the state’s GOP establishment - that did the push poll. The OP has correctly described the poll itself. I don’t remember Rove’s name coming up at the time, but he wasn’t all that well known then, and might just have been considered an interchangeable campaign flunky not worth naming in any story. The anti-McCain campaign in S.C. in early 2000 has some features in common with the anti-Dukakis Willie Horton ad campaign in '88, which was carried out by a pro-Bush “independent” group with (apparently) no formal ties to the Bush campaign. Ditto the anti-Kerry Swift Boat ads last year. Seems to me that the Bushes have a pattern of letting “unaffiliated” groups do their dirty work, while apparently keeping their hands clean. Just one more reason to loathe 'em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roves-racist-push-poll-against-mcain-is-there-any-doubt-rove-did-it/313915.md?page=1)