# Roy Moore, 'defender of the Constitution' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267 "2003-08-14T23:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/21 "2003-08-15T12:43:43Z")
For those who mentioned it…yes…you are right. Moore brought in this monument after hours. If he was so proud of it I’m trying to figure out why he did it in such a sneaky manner. The judge over the case has given him until next Wednesday to remove it or our state will face a $5,000 a day fine. Moore announced yesterday that he doesn’t intend to remove it and is taking his case to the US Supreme Court. Just what our state needs…$5,000 a day in fines that could go to improve our shitty school system. Moore is being pig headed and most people in the state who have any common sense agree. FTR I am a Christian and I believe in the TC. However, his courtroom or any government building is not the place. ---
**Author:** ![doc\_miller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@doc\_miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doc_miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/22 "2003-08-15T12:49:17Z")
At the risk of turning this into a Great Debate, here’s a hypothetical for ya. Despite it’s religious origins, the Ten Commandments _is_ an ancient code of laws. What would your position be if the TC were displayed in that context, along with, say, the Code of Hammurabi, Justinian’s Code, the Magna Carta, and/or whatever other historical laws you want? Is it still an establishment or religion, or does it become an appropriate part of the history of legal philosophy? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/23 "2003-08-15T13:03:12Z")
_If_ it were presented in that context–and the 11th Cir. opinion makes it entirely clear that is _not_ the case with Justice Asshat’s monument–then you’d have an acceptable display of the history of legal philosophy. There’s Supreme Court authority on pretty much exactly that point, by the way–the Christmas display cases. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/24 "2003-08-15T13:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*Is that judge government, or is he an individual exercising his right to free speech and/or freedom to practice whatever religion he wants to? > > That’s the question. \*\* It does seem a rather simple question, however. Do you think I could waltz into the courtroom and set up an altar to Vishnu? Would I be allowed to leave it there, as an individual exercizing my freedom to practice whatever religion I want to? If not, what separates me from the judge, that he can put up the ten commandments? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/25 "2003-08-15T13:38:25Z")
Not to mention the fact that Moore, back when he snuck the dadgum thing into the building, repeatedly emphasized that he was viewing the monument as a religious symbol, and not a historical legal display. Moore is a self-aggrandizing publicity hound. He was a minor judge in Etowah County (where I happened to live when he started with this whole Ten Commandments thing in his courtroom) who rode this issue straight into his position in the state Supreme Court. You just watch. He’s gonna run for governor in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Sylkyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Sylkyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylkyn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/26 "2003-08-15T14:05:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*Moore is a self-aggrandizing publicity hound. He was a minor judge in Etowah County (where I happened to live when he started with this whole Ten Commandments thing in his courtroom) who rode this issue straight into his position in the state Supreme Court. You just watch. He’s gonna run for governor in a few years. \*\* You said it, brother. I’ve been screaming this for the last couple of years regarding this complete ASS of a judge. It’s not about the religion aspect, it’s not about church and state, it’s ALL about Make-Alabama-Look-More-Idiotic-If-That’s-Possible Moore getting his mug plastered all over the television and papers. I wouldn’t vote for him for street cleaner, but I bet there’s a whole bunch of good ol’ Southern Baptists just waiting to do so. Hell, no wonder the whole country thinks so highly of us. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/27 "2003-08-15T14:18:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by doc\_miller \* > At the risk of turning this into a Great Debate, here’s a hypothetical for ya. Despite it’s religious origins, the Ten Commandments _is_ an ancient code of laws. What would your position be if the TC were displayed in that context, along with, say, the Code of Hammurabi, Justinian’s Code, the Magna Carta, and/or whatever other historical laws you want? Is it still an establishment or religion, or does it become an appropriate part of the history of legal philosophy? Supporters of Roy Moore’s nonsense and similar attempts to turn courthouses and other government buildings into Christian churches often point out that Moses is depicted in the decoration of the U.S. Supreme Court building. And Moses _is_ depicted in the decoration of the U.S. Supreme Court building. He’s right up there on the [wall of the Supreme Court chamber](http://www.supremecourtus.gov/about/north&southwalls.pdf)…along with Menes (semi-legendary first pharoah of Egypt), Hammurabi (of the famed code), Solomon (another Biblical figure, of course, and a legendary figure of wisdom and judicial authority), Lycurgus (who reformed the constitution of the Greek city-state of Sparta), Solon (who did the same for Sparta’s great rival Athens), Draco (who wrote the Athenian code of laws that was revised–often drastically–by Solon, and from whose name we get the adjective [draconian](http://www.bartleby.com/61/45/D0374500.html)), Confucius (the famous Chinese philosopher, whose system of thought emphasizes human affairs and social relationships over concern for the supernatural or otherworldly things), Octavian (or Augustus Caesar, considered the first Emperor of Rome), Justinian (East Roman Emperor who authorized a major codification of Roman law), Muhammad (founder of Islam, and therefore of the _shari’a_ or Islamic law), Charlemagne (the sort-of founder of the Holy Roman Empire), King John (famous in jurisprudence mainly for getting the Magna Carta screwed out of him at swordpoint by his barons), Louis IX (king of France, leader of a couple of Crusades, and creator of a court of appeals), Hugo Grotius (17th century Dutch jurist whose works were foundational to the modern idea of international law), Sir William Blackstone (the famous commentator on English law), John Marshall (Chief Justice of the United States, author of _Marbury v. Madison_, which established the concept of judicial review in the U.S.), and Napoleon (overthrower of the French Republic, Emperor of the French, would-be conqueror of Europe, and codifier of French law into a legal code which still forms the basis for the laws of many countries, as well as the U.S. state of Louisiana). Somehow, I don’t think that’s what Roy Moore and his ilk have in mind, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/28 "2003-08-15T14:20:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*I vote that Roy Moore’s head should be placed on a pike, as a warning to the next ten generations that _you can’t put the Ten Commandments in a courthouse_. > > We can then look up into his lifeless eyes, and wave, like _this_. \*\* Thank you Mr. Cotto! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/29 "2003-08-15T14:46:28Z")
This whole thing pisses me off, but the one thing that just chaps my hide and gets my goat, or gets my hide and chaps my goat, is that this arrogant, grandstanding piece of crap politician is defying the federal court and the rule of law. I’m all for hitting them in the pocketbook for $5,000 a day, but what I really want, what SHOULD happen is that the bar association should strip him of his license, and he should be impeached. There is no reason for his George Wallace-esque bullshit, and he should pay the price. And I can’t help but notice that the _ahem_ fine Attorney General for the State of Alabama and Bush judicial nominee William Pryor is strangely silent about this whole debacle. Color me surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/30 "2003-08-15T14:54:18Z")
Oh, no, Bill Pryor isn’t silent. He said in an interview he would use every means at his disposal to represent the State’s interests in this issue. “State’s interests,” in this case, being what Roy Moore says, since he’s on the state Supreme Court. I’m a Southern Baptist, born and raised in Alabama, and I’m disgusted by this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/31 "2003-08-15T15:22:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Hamlet_ > what SHOULD happen is that the bar association should strip him of his license Amen. Moore obviously skipped school the day they taught law. A judge openly defying a court order based on laughably flimsy arguments is completely inexcusable and it really pisses me off. [This](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60041-2003Aug14.html) story indicates that Pryor will act to uphold the court order. I think you might have misunderstood him, **Sauron**. He referred to the injunction, which is confusing. Injunctions often refer to barring somebody from acting, but an injunction can also compel somebody to do something – removing the display in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/32 "2003-08-15T15:22:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **Why, I bet the State of Wisconsin doesn’t even publicly execute Pentecostals and atheists! I bet the State of Wisconsin doesn’t even publicly flog Pentecostals and atheists, or even fine them or anything!** Much as we’d like to… ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/33 "2003-08-15T15:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoff \* > I think you might have misunderstood him, **Sauron**. He referred to the injunction, which is confusing. Injunctions often refer to barring somebody from acting, but an injunction can also compel somebody to do something – removing the display in this case. Actually, I was going by a radio newscast I heard this morning, in which the reporter indicated Pryor was solidly behind Roy Moore in this effort. If Pryor actually is working to have the monument removed, I’m pleased and, sadly, somewhat surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/34 "2003-08-15T15:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* If a representive of the government endorses a particular religious cod … \*\* :eek: Holy mackerel! [sub]I just _had_ to. I’m sorry. Please don’t hurt me.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/35 "2003-08-15T15:54:23Z")
I TOTALLY SUPPORT Judge Moore. It’s time MORE ALABAMANS acted like this. I live in Arkansas, it’s nice to get the heat off us.😉 ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/36 "2003-08-15T15:55:15Z")
And has any one actually seen this big block of marble? The 10 commandments? Written out as 11 seperated sentences but is a paraphrase. That whole bit about neighbors and wives and asses has been shortened to Thou Shalt Not Covet. And there is no cite. And why would you paraphrase but keep the Thees and Thous? And this big block of marble is A Graven Image. Big No-No to the 2nd Commandment (3rd one on the marble block). Moore has made unto himself a graven image - conveniently ignoring that point. And the people here in Montgomery don’t see that this is wrong. That if this isn’t stopped here, what’s to stop the next supreme courst justice from putting up statue of Vishnu, Mary, Buddha, or a shrine to Bear Bryant. (Hey it’s Alabama - it could happen.) Yes, the 10 commandments are part of the fabric of the law, but so is Hammarabi’s Code and natural law and what not. But none of that is allowed! It would be blasphemous, and distract from the big block of marble that pays homage only to Moore’s ego. Besides, now it’s all mute. He took an oath of office to uphold the law, which he is now breaking. So he has borne false witness. Broken yet another commandment. \ He is a pathetic clown in a bad fitting suit. His mother must be so proud. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/37 "2003-08-15T16:11:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*Holy mackerel![/sub] \*\* Indeed. The scales of Lady Justice should be unencumbered by salmon fishing for attention in this manner. I was trying to work in a “flounders of this country”, but I just couldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/38 "2003-08-15T16:14:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*Hey, **pkbites** , I had no idea that the State of Wisconsin defined “worshipping false gods” or “making graven images” as “treason”. Oh, wait, the State of Wisconsin [_doesn’t_ do that](http://folio.legis.state.wi.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=66929&infobase=stats.nfo&jump=946.01&softpage=Document#JUMPDEST_946.01), does it? \*\* Yeah, but Treason was the only law that was even remotely close to that Kommandment. I had to list something!😛 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/39 "2003-08-15T16:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*:eek: Holy mackerel! > > [sub]I just _had_ to. I’m sorry. Please don’t hurt me.[/sub] \*\* Oh for cod’s hake **Steve**. Ah well, I suppose you did it just for the halibut. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267/40 "2003-08-15T17:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sauron_ > Actually, I was going by a radio newscast I heard this morning, in which the reporter indicated Pryor was solidly behind Roy Moore in this effort. Well, hopefully he’ll support the rule of law. My understanding is that he supports Moore in the fight, but will follow the court order. I don’t agree with the horse he backed, but at least he’s willing to obey the court. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/roy-moore-defender-of-the-constitution/195267.md?page=3)