# Royal Bank Reports Half-Billion in Profits This Quarter: Cuts 1660 Jobs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547 "2004-12-01T19:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/21 "2004-12-02T21:34:46Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > It’s like your shopping choices are WalMart and KMart… and a swift kick in the ass. In other words, no true free market. > [@](#): > > There’s ING, which is great except for not having any ATMs around. I think there’s like 6 in the whole country. The same is true of our Credit Unions here, very few ATMs but superior service. I can, however, buy groceries with my ATM card and get extra cash back at any supermarket. If I really wanted to, I could by a candy bar and get $200 cash back. We just get extra cash when we go grocery shopping. I hardly ever use cash anyway. I charge everything to get airline miles. > [@](#): > > This is the main advantage that the big banks have, in that they are all truly national – I pretty much never have to worry about finding an ATM from my bank if I’m in any size of city in Canada. Many of our banks (BofA, Wells Fargo) are truely national too and have ATMs everywhere. The service sucks though so I am very glad that we have the option of a Credit Union. Back to the OP, I do understand your ire and I think that it is unjustified. No one has yet been able to explain to me why the bank should keep employing tellers that they no longer need. It’s not a charity, it’s a public company that legally has an obligation to its shareholders (owners) to make as much profit as possible within the law. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/22 "2004-12-02T21:35:27Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I was not aware how bad the banking problems were up there though in that there really isn’t a free market of any kind. Such is the problem with socialized governements. I guess that all you can really do is try to elect some reformers. > > Haj From [Dept. of Finance](http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2002/bank_e.html) > [@](#): > > Canada’s banks operate through an extensive network that includes over 8,000 branches and close to 18,000 automated banking machines (ABMs) across the country. Canada has the highest number of ABMs per capita in the world and benefits from the highest penetration levels of electronic channels such as debit cards, Internet banking and telephone banking. > [@](#): > > Banks play a key role in Canada’s financial system and economic development. As of July 2002 the banking industry included 14 domestic banks, 33 foreign bank subsidiaries and 20 foreign bank branches operating in Canada. In total, these institutions managed over $1.7 trillion in assets. Mind you these numbers are from 2002. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/23 "2004-12-02T21:44:45Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > But it’s not about the law, peabrain, it’s about ethics and morality, about which the law typically knows nothing. While the people fired may be redundant, that doesn’t mean they deserve less consideration than the executive assholes who are getting golden parachutes at the expense of those shareholders whose boots you would lick if they would only let you. [/QUOTE] Now you’re changing your story, you disingenuous cock. You said that the rights of the tellers should be greater than the rights of the shareholders which would be illegal as well as idiotic. Now you’re saying that the rights of the tellers should be the same as the rights of the suits which is a good point. This unfairness exists in most large corporations in the US as well. The suits got the golden parachutes most likely because it was in their employment contracts so the problem is one step back. Unfortunately, this is now “standard practice” so you won’t be able to recruit VP level staff without such a contract. It’s a classic case of the Old Boys club watching out for each other. Everyone should have the same layoff package. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/24 "2004-12-02T21:54:13Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > In other words, no true free market. There’s no such thing as a free market, by those standards. What, in your mind, would make it free? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/25 "2004-12-02T21:57:55Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > There’s no such thing as a free market, by those standards. What, in your mind, would make it free? I was being sarcastic. A choice of seven things that are exactly alike isn’t much of a choice in my mind. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/26 "2004-12-02T22:05:21Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > \Back to the OP, I do understand your ire and I think that it is unjustified. No one has yet been able to explain to me why the bank should keep employing tellers that they no longer need. It’s not a charity, it’s a public company that legally has an obligation to its shareholders (owners) to make as much profit as possible within the law. > > Haj Major corporations don’t lay off because of efficiency or because there is a shortage of work; they lay off because in their short-sighted quest for the fattest bottom line, they simply want to cut expenses, and salaries is a big one. Especially the salaries of the bottom-rung employees, who are also the people who can probably least afford a lay-off (okay, let’s call it what it really is - a firing.) Based on my experience, I would be willing to bet that the staffers left where firing hit the hardest are over-worked at this point. And for the record, I do have a problem with corporations making as much profit as possible within the law, but that’s another discussion. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/27 "2004-12-02T22:07:57Z")
Hey, which bank was it that just closed its last branch in all of Nunavut, and basically said that any Nunavummiut who had accounts with them could just trot down to northern Ontario to do their banking? (Which is essentially like telling Alaskans to trot down to Seattle to cash their payroll cheques.) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/28 "2004-12-02T22:10:05Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I was not aware how bad the banking problems were up there though in that there really isn’t a free market of any kind. Such is the problem with socialized governements. What does a small number of banks have to do with a socialist government? These things aren’t government bodies, they’re gigantic frelling companies that make profit for their shareholders. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/29 "2004-12-02T22:26:43Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Could be worse. The CIBC has been squiring out Canadian Tire money out of an automated teller rather than Canadian Tender. Ne shitteth vous pas. [http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/01/CanadianTire-ATM.041201.html](http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/01/CanadianTire-ATM.041201.html) WTF is Canadian Tire money? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/30 "2004-12-02T22:29:24Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > What does a small number of banks have to do with a socialist government? These things aren’t government bodies, they’re gigantic frelling companies that make profit for their shareholders. I was talking about **featherlou** ’s comments about the Banks and the Gov’t being nearly one and the same and that they are so over-regulated that there are only a very few choices. The US deregulated the banking industy and there is now more choice for the consumer. In the US’s case, this went way too far the other way and we had the S&L debacle where way too few people went to jail. Spmewhere there is a nice middle ground. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/31 "2004-12-02T22:32:05Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I Also, to further muddy these murky waters, I’ve heard that part of the “hit” the banks took last quarter was from trying to bust into the U.S. banking market. I guess they figured they would try to include United Statesians in their institutionalized fleecing. About half of the Royal Bank’s employees are in the USA. They hope to significantly expand there. We don’t have many banks in Canada, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. It is handy to have major outfits that can handle large capitalization matter, rather than have to go outside of Canada more often looking for funds. As far as level of service and level of fees for everyday personal banking, for personal mortages, and for small and mediium business loans, there are lots of credit unions out there. Why people don’t make more use of them for daily banking is beyond me. For investing, there are lots of options other than banks that still have relatively similar levels of security and returns. For example, you would be amazed at how the insurance industry is giving the banking industry a run for its money concerning personal investments. And again keep credit unions in mind. Finally, there is nothing to stop new players from entering the market. For example, Canadian Tire is our latest bank. Honestly. I’m not putting you on. (They base their business on credit services, so don’t expect them to offer savings and chequing accounts or mortgages or the like any time soon). There is also nothing to stop existing players from holding non-bank business that are in the lending business (e.g. HSBC holding HFC). I suggest that it is not that our relatively few banks control the market in Canada, but rather that people go to banks first, rather than other business, to service their financial needs. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/32 "2004-12-02T22:45:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > WTF is Canadian Tire money? It’s a really shitty way of trying to hold customers. Canadian tire (a store like Walmart, but a little bit more tool/vehicle oriented) will give you a small amount of “Canadian Tire money” everytime you buy something with cash or debit. Something like $0.40 / $10 (or whatever). The idea is that you can use it on your next purchase. It’s a lousy system (IMO). I don’t buy stuff at Canadian Tire because of the silly money. Give me the damn discount or don’t bother with a dumb gimmick. I hate it when I end up with 50 bills of 5 cent Canadian Tire money. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/33 "2004-12-02T22:51:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > WTF is Canadian Tire money? Canadian Tire is a major chain retail store that does vehicle repairs, sells car parts, tools, hardware, plumbing, electrical, paint, garden stuff, kitchen stuff, appliances, sporting gear, and probably a lot of other things that I can’t recall at the moment. Most Canadian males have spent a lot of time wandering about in Canadian Tire stores. In the last decade or so, the chain has grown by including kitchen and houseware departments, so now wandering around in Canadian Tire on a Saturday is common for both genders. One of the things that helped Canadian Tire really make it big was to be one of the first in Canada to computerizing its inventory tracking. This smoothed out its demand/supply, and also helped them become very good at figuring out what its customers want. Thus if you are not sure where to go for something, you go to Canadian Tire. Every time you make a cash purchase, they give you discount coupons based on the amount you spent. The coupons look and feel like real money, and come in various small denominations. The cupons are so common, and the range of products sold so broad, that sometimes people trade Canadian Tire money as if it were real. For example, fundraising often includes appeals for Canadian Tire money as well as cash. Although Canadian Tire is now a bank (or to be correct, Canadian Tire owns the Canadian Tire Bank), it is really just for credit services associated with its customers’ debt, and has nothing to do with the Canadian Tire money that we know and love. Here are some pics of Canadian Tire money: [http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html#versions](http://www2.canadiantire.ca/CTenglish/ctmoney.html#versions) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/34 "2004-12-02T22:53:13Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > As far as level of service and level of fees for everyday personal banking, for personal mortages, and for small and mediium business loans, there are lots of credit unions out there. Why people don’t make more use of them for daily banking is beyond me. So you _do_ have credit unions Up North? Use them for fuck’s sake and drop the shitty banks. That’s exactly what I did. If enough people do that, they’ll have to change their policies. Haj ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/35 "2004-12-02T23:37:08Z")
Re: Canadian Tire money There is one country music pub in my town that accepts CT money at par. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/36 "2004-12-02T23:39:40Z")
I’m goin. I’m gonna buy me some tools and go listen to country music. You guys got hick beer like PBR up there, or would I have to drink the good stuff? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/37 "2004-12-02T23:55:51Z")
Pal, you can have all the Blue and Labatt 50 you can take. No seriously, take it all. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/38 "2004-12-03T00:44:29Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Re: Canadian Tire money > > There is one country music pub in my town that accepts CT money at par. I don’t know how long its been going, but here in Montreal, a few years ago some restaurant chain was accepting Canadian Tire money at par and when CT fond out about it they made them cease and desist, claiming that CT money was to be used only to buy CT stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/39 "2004-12-03T02:33:59Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > I’m goin. I’m gonna buy me some tools and go listen to country music. You guys got hick beer like PBR up there, or would I have to drink the good stuff? 😉 You would so fit right in in Alberta. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547/40 "2004-12-03T05:06:44Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > So you _do_ have credit unions Up North? Use them for fuck’s sake and drop the shitty banks. That’s exactly what I did. If enough people do that, they’ll have to change their policies. > > Haj Canada has the [highest per capita use of credit unions](http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2003/ccu_e.html) in the world; the first credit unions in North America were Quebec’s Caisses populaires Desjardins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/royal-bank-reports-half-billion-in-profits-this-quarter-cuts-1660-jobs/277547.md?page=3)