# RTA, you lying sack of shit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 22, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212 "2001-05-22T20:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/1 "2001-05-22T20:50:31Z")
OK, so **RTA** thinks that calling him a “cheap-shot artist” was Pit-worthy, as opposed to GD worthy. Maybe he’s right. But I thought that it was pretty restrained, since the real fact is that he is a liar. He _started_ with a cheap shot, sure enough. Specifically, he said in this thread that “That there is even more caribou breeding in the ANWR than a clearly discredited report would have us believe - shouldn’t this be yet another nail in the coffin of this _outrageous_ drilling proposal?” (emphasis added). I responded that no, increased caribou population estimates in the area were not sufficient to oppose drilling the ANWR, but rather that one would have to show harm to the caribou to make such an argument. Here is his response in its entirety: > [@](#): > > Ah, quite so, manhattan. I’m sure they won’t mind a bit - after all, a little deafening racket, fumes, and massive machinery can actually _lend_ to the romantic atmosphere – \*especially \* if you’re like a wild animal (I hear that giggling - don’t make me come back there!). > > After all, Big Oil is **nothing** if not responsible and environmentally friendly - y’know, “People Do” and all that. (I always forget about that other stuff we’re not supposed to talk about.) > > Plus, I can always see a caribou at the zoo … well, not my _local_ zoo, but there are zoos that do have caribou. (For now, anyways.) **RTA** , by failing to back your statement and by mischaracterizing the impact of drilling on caribou populations, you have entered the realm of the lie. It’s the lie of the uninformed, to be sure. I personally don’t know which is worse, a lie from intentional ignorance or a lie from knowledge designed to spread ignorance. But you are guilty of the first of these. I have complete confidence that you are too ignorant yourself to be guilty of the second. A quick review of your prior posts indicates that you are wholly immune to facts, but to help eradicate the ignorance of others who may happen upon this thread, here are some interesting things to know about Alaskan caribou and drilling. The Central Arctic herd (the one most associated with the Trans-Alaska Pipeline) has increased three to six-fold since the pipeline went up in the ‘70s (depending on your start and end dates – the six-fold figure starts from a very low base when the herd was in cyclical decline and stops at a cyclical peak in ’95). Because of the pipeline? Actually, no. Of course not. But to claim the pipeline hurt the caribou is a lie, pure and simple. The Western Arctic herd (associated with North Shore drilling) has increased about five-fold since drilling operations started there. Because of the drilling? Actually, no. Of course not. But again, to claim that the drilling hurt the caribou is a lie, pure and simple. 1002 drilling, if it occurs, will mostly affect the Porcupine herd. Now, that’s a larger herd, and it post-calves on a narrower strip of shoreline. So will drilling hurt the herd? I don’t know. But, and this is important, _neither do you, **RTA** _. And you are lying when you claim or imply otherwise. Personally, I’m more concerned with the rarer and less adaptable polar bear, which dens in the ANWR. Do you know the specific concern that I (and other people who actually think it’s important to know the facts) have, or was I correct when I said you just bleat back whatever they teach you in knee-jerk school? (Quick, **RTA** , how many other major caribou herd groups are there in the area? What are their names? Why do caribou tend to post-calf near the shores? When, seasonally, do they post-calf? Would there be oil production during that season? Why or why not?) To repeat what I said in the original thread, for my own account I still think the jury is out on the risk/reward here – and certainly there are more pressing priorities, such as opening up the Florida Gulf Coast to deepwater operations (What can I say? I like tundra more than tourists – go figure!). But lies about the caribou are simply that – lies. So, **RTA** , not only are you a such a low and loathsome waste of otherwise perfectly good DNA that you happily and proudly make fun of Alzheimer’s disease to reinforce your hatred, but you are a liar to boot. I don’t know how you live with yourself – I’m just grateful that I don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/2 "2001-05-22T22:22:05Z")
> [@](#): > > The Central Arctic herd…has increased three to six-fold since the pipeline went up in the ?70s (depending on your start and end dates - the six-fold figure starts from a very low base when the herd was in cyclical decline and stops at a cyclical peak in ?95). Because of the pipeline? Actually, no. Of course not. But to claim the pipeline hurt the caribou is a lie, pure and simple. Well…one could look at it in a way that the pipeline didn’t hurt the caribou population, not lowering the level from the 1970s, and you have demonstrated the truth of that observation. One could also say, though, that the herd _would have_ increased ten- or twenty-fold (or whatever), in the same period of time had the line not been there. That cannot be proved by your numbers. Regardless, I agree with your main point. **RTA** has show him/herself to be a cheap-shot artist in the past. And whatever the truth may be, he/she hasn’t done anything to prove his/her point of view. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/3 "2001-05-22T22:39:11Z")
Balderdash, sir! Tommyrot! Oh, wait, this _is_ the Pit! Cool! Up yours, you self-righteous peckerhead! RTA’s point is well taken, as the most cursory reading of your post will reveal. Specificly, you say **“you”** twice. Therefore, one cannot but assume that you are referring _specificly to him_. To sniff daintily after the fact and aver that you were referring to his _argument_ is deep dish crapola. And from what rhetorical text do you derive “kneejerk”? Are you going to claim you are unaware that “kneejerk” is an insult of long standing, virtually a cliche from the Knuckle-walking Right to the Enlightened Left. I am hard-pressed to believe you don’t know this. Hence, the insult was deliberate, personal, and Pit-worthy. Quod Errata Demonstrum. As to equating ignorance with mendacity, that argument is beneath contempt. If I ask my son what is two plus two, and he answers five, I should smack the lying little turd around? Ignorance is a condition, perhaps even a failing. Unlike the use of erudite devices to mask a fallacious personal assault, it is not a lie. As to your astonishing awareness of caribou mating habits, I’ll take your word for it. But, as I recall, the origin of all this was the story that some poor shmuck got canned for producing evidence that would embarrass the Powers the Think They Be. Would they? Sure they would! Did they? Who knows? Hence, it never was about the true facts of caribou mating habits, but as to whether it was likely that someone would be punished for supplying unpleasant facts. RTA’s take was rather clever, I thought, but in no way implied that RTA was putting himself forth as an expert on caribou mating habits. (Unlike yourself, who seems to know more about it than the caribou themselves. Are they nervous in your presence?) It is abundantly clear that the RTA’s jibe was humorous in its’ intent (and rather in its result, to my eye). In no wise did he imply that he had a Ph.D. in Caribou Nookie. Your assault is more befitting a humorless, self-righteous prig than the jolly openminded fellow we all know you to be. Go forth, and sin no more. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/4 "2001-05-22T23:01:31Z")
And then there’s Elucidator, who can run his mouth for an hour and yet, strangely, says nothing at all… ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/5 "2001-05-22T23:06:25Z")
Quite so, elucidator. I could scarcely say it better myself. Humorless. And manhattan: you have a bug up your ass. Please seek help. Having been a longtime observer of the SDMB (longer than manhattan even - though obviously not as committed time-wise) I can say that feuding with cranky moderators has always proven unsafe conduct. With this in mind, I consider the matter closed. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/6 "2001-05-22T23:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > But, as I recall, the origin of all this was the story that some poor shmuck got canned for producing evidence that would embarrass the Powers the Think They Be. Would they? Sure they would! Did they? Who knows? Since you obviously didn’t read the thread from which this one originated, I’m unsurprised that you didn’t read this one either. **RTA** was lying. You are just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/7 "2001-05-22T23:47:39Z")
Just to be clear, more population != healthier herd (just look at the Shenendoah Valley deer population). And Necros’ point is well taken. But yeah, RTA has about 1 mg of fact rattling around in his posts… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/8 "2001-05-22T23:52:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*And then there’s Elucidator, who can run his mouth for an hour and yet, strangely, says nothing at all… \*\* How the hell would you know? You can’t _read_ for an hour without your lips getting tired! (Yeeeehaw! This here Pit is a **hoot!** ) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/9 "2001-05-23T00:15:46Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > [@](#): > > … **RTA** was lying. You are just stupid. > \*\*… Aw, c’mon, Manny, is that the best you can do? How about “Is this the nose that launced a thousand ships And burned the topless towers of Illium?” See, thats French. When it comes to high-tone snottiness, you can’t do better than stealing from the French! Or “You yellow eyed dog-licking pizzle-sucker!” That’s Texan. What we lack in erudition we make up for with bombastic sincerity. You keep this up you’ll make me feel guilty, like I’m picking on somebody who just got off the short school bus. This party was _your_ idea, get down! Show us what you got! (Rhetoricly speaking, that is) I quite understand. I was a frustated virgin once myself. Of course, I was fifteen. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/10 "2001-05-23T02:33:23Z")
Your a double of Regan as far saying alot, but nothing at all elucidator.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/11 "2001-05-23T02:36:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*And then there’s Elucidator, who can run his mouth for an hour and yet, strangely, says nothing at all… \*\* Kinda like handy, except he posts for an hour and has nothing to say. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/12 "2001-05-23T03:11:03Z")
“Like being savaged by a dead sheep.” Denis Healey, Labour politician, On being criticized by Sir Geoffrey Howe in the House of Commons, Hansard 14 June (1978) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/13 "2001-05-23T04:18:33Z")
I’m fairly scared to read the linked thread, so I’ll ask here: Did **RTA** ever demonstrate that drilling will harm the caribou? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/14 "2001-05-23T05:53:37Z")
Not that \*\* my \*\* appreciation will go over as anything to get excited about with this particular crowd, my dear, but you know how I feel… you can talk for hours and hours and surely never run out of pearls. And kudos to you for being so willing to continue casting them… Beat me. stoid ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/15 "2001-05-23T06:07:54Z")
> [@](#): > > How the hell would you know? You can’t read for an hour without your lips getting tired! It’s simple, really… I simply take random samples of your posts and correlate those findings into a large picture. So far, all the samples of your posts have consisted entirely of “Blah blah blah blah blah.” You wouldn’t know a salient point or intelligent comment if it drummed through that thick layer of stupid surrounding the bleeding-heart testicle you call a brain, 'Lucidator. All you know is that if something agrees with you - no matter how stupid, inane, moronic, factless, mentally decrepit, or intellectually dishonest - you’ll root for it with your dying breath. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/16 "2001-05-23T06:31:20Z")
Awww, hell, SPOOFE. Didn’t realize I hurt your feelings so bad. Tell you what, tomorrow you can **keep** your lunch money! ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/17 "2001-05-23T06:35:21Z")
Oh, please, I’ve been insulted by people _with_ brains… what hope do you have? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/18 "2001-05-23T10:32:56Z")
"See, thats French. When it comes to high-tone snottiness, you can’t do better than stealing from the French! " Its actually Greek, IIRC, from Homer’s Illiad. Though I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/19 "2001-05-23T10:38:52Z")
Actually, I’m wrong. Its from Goethe, and he was Dutch. Still isn’t french 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2001, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212/20 "2001-05-23T12:32:17Z")
_Cyrano de Bergerac_ Rostand. French. Hint:“nose” Putz. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rta-you-lying-sack-of-shit/66212.md?page=2)