# Rubio blames Obama for the rise of Trump and disintegration of GOP... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 13, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900 "2016-03-13T20:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/21 "2016-03-14T03:31:36Z")
Apparently we should disabuse ourselves of the notion that Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing, because he knows _ **exactly** _ what he’s doing! 😃 > [@j666](#): > > Obama used a double negative in a speech? I’m sure it was intentional. > [@adaher](#): > > We can’t blame Obama for Republican self-destruction, but we can sure as hell blame him for creating an environment where the public wanted change so badly that they elected Donald Trump. Obama was supposed to be the change. Instead he was just more of the same. Well, I sure noticed a huge change when Obama was elected. A newfound respect for science, doubling of the NSF budget, mostly very competent and reputable Cabinet secretaries and agency administrators, a move to climate mitigation instead of denial, health care reform, and many other things, with Dick Cheney and Michael Brown nowhere to be found despite their famous propensities for waging unbelievably stupid wars and doing a heck-uv-a-job, respectively. Apparently there really is a difference between Obama and the former dumbass Texas village idiot. Some folks were disappointed that he wasn’t a more radical liberal and turned out to act more like a centrist, but that didn’t stop Republicans from demonizing him for being a “socialist” and probably a Muslim, too, and opposing his agenda at every possible turn. Just exactly where in this scenario is Obama at fault? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/22 "2016-03-14T03:35:30Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > No it’s not and no it isn’t. > > I’m a strong Obama supporter, and get upset at the idiocy of Trump / Republicans. > > However I do believe that part of the role of “goverment” is to promote good governance, reasoned debate and strong structures to bring forth people with good credentials. > > I don’t think the role of a goverment leader is either to “help” his team or hurt the other team…the role is to help the emergence of ideas and let the chips fall where they may. > > - note…naturally it is still Obama’s role to shepherd his ideas through congress I agree with what you’re saying, to an extent. The political process is not just a game with winners and losers; it has real consequences that affect people’s lives. Ideally the process should channel the wisdom of the electorate into electing the best people, and should reward those who govern well. But I think there’s some spillover between the “horse race” and “good governance” ways of looking at things. Obama presumably believes that the Democratic platform is in the best interest of the country. The disintegration of the GOP would make it more likely for Democrats to win elections and enact their agenda. Again, I don’t blame Obama for the GOP’s problems, but it’s not fair to say that such an argument is solely about hurting the other team, and not about ideas. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/23 "2016-03-14T03:37:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think Obama is responsible for Trump, but he is responsible for the widespread cynicism and desire for change, even among his own base. A Democratic candidate attaching herself firmly to Obama’s legacy should have a smooth path to the nomination. The discontent on the Democratic side is all on him. > > And if Trump was to win the election, Obama would deserve every emotion he would be feeling as he handed the keys to him. We can’t blame Obama for Republican self-destruction, but we can sure as hell blame him for creating an environment where the public wanted change so badly that they elected Donald Trump. Obama was supposed to be the change. Instead he was just more of the same. :rolleyes: What running coach and Johnny L.A. said. And I have to add that what the republicans are doing betrays their denials about the change that has taken place in jobs, health care, and many other items that benefit America. > **[Obama's Numbers (January 2016 Update) - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2016/01/obamas-numbers-january-2016-update/)** > > A statistical measure of the U.S. on crime, guns, jobs, health insurance and more under Barack Obama. As for Trump, I guess one has to let Superman remind us about how un-american the message he is telling to many really is. [http://www.attn.com/stories/4329/superman-poster-tolerance](http://www.attn.com/stories/4329/superman-poster-tolerance) > [@](#): > > “…if YOU hear anybody talk against a schoolmate or anyone else because of his religion, race or national origin - don’t wait: tell him THAT KIND OF TALK IS UN-AMERICAN.” Rubio is wrong, the Republicans are the ones that set the time bomb that is just going off, luckily it seems that it will just damage the ones that decided it was a good idea to set it up in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/24 "2016-03-14T03:39:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And if he held his breath, he would be accused of trying to hide his color by turning blue. Well done. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > … > B) If Obama did cause the destruction of the GOP, isn’t that what a Democrat should do? … No, the Democrats should design and implement policy and laws for the betterment of the country and her citizens. So should the Republicans. No political party should put itself before the good of the country. > [@adaher](#): > > … > We can’t blame Obama for Republican self-destruction, but we can sure as hell blame him for creating an environment where the public wanted change so badly that they elected Donald Trump. Obama was supposed to be the change. Instead he was just more of the same. We can blame anyone for any thing if we want to, but blaming Obama for the last eight years of stalemate, divisiveness, and deception and self-decpetion is not rational. The leaders of the Republican party publicly stated that the party’s primary goal was to prevent Obama from accomplishing anything, but blame him for everything including problems in the Republican party itself. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/25 "2016-03-14T03:40:00Z")
[Dana Milbank in the Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-mindless-obstruction-has-helped-create-something-far-worse/2016/03/11/46ba9022-e723-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html) > [@](#): > > The chairmen of the House and Senate budget committees announced, for the first time since their panels were created more than 40 years ago, that they would not have hearings on the president’s budget or allow administration officials to testify. They decided this before President Obama released his budget, refusing to contemplate any budget from Obama — sight unseen. > > This declaration, like the Senate Republicans’ vow that they will refuse to consider — or even meet with — any Supreme Court nominee Obama sends them, is the very definition of blind obstruction. > > …\… > > And Republicans wonder how they wound up with Donald Trump? > > The party is in an existential crisis, and this sort of mindless obstruction, practiced on Capitol Hill for much of the past seven years, is partly to blame. Republican lawmakers, fearing pressure and primary challenges from extreme conservatives, refused to engage in anything that might be perceived as cooperating with Obama — and so the legislature ground to a halt. The failure to produce, or to do much to address the nation’s economic and security woes, caused more disgust with Washington. This, in turn, allowed the rise of a populist demagogue. To quote a previous poster, “Just exactly where in this scenario is Obama at fault?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/26 "2016-03-14T03:44:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, we know there are 3 million young Obama supporters who decided not to vote in 2012. Who knows what they are thinking in 2016? That Obama is not running, and it is more likely that they did not had a job then, but now they will remember that they have jobs now or better opportunities. They will think for sure that Clinton will be right by mentioning that the Trade wars that Trump is proposing will lead to an even worse recession than the one we are recovering from. > **[Trump trade plans could cause global recession: Experts](https://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/10/trump-trade-plans-could-cause-global-recession-experts.html)** > > Even those saying GOP front-runner Donald Trump has rightly diagnosed a problem with U.S. trade policies are wary of his prescriptions. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/27 "2016-03-14T04:06:17Z")
But wouldn’t you agree that a President is at least somewhat responsible for who succeeds him? The political environment that exists now, in both parties, was a political environment that occurred under his leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/28 "2016-03-14T04:19:14Z")
_In spite_ of his leadership. Literally. In spite. You’re supposed to be the ‘Party of Responsibility’. Well, now’s the time to take responsibility for the conditions that created your monster. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/29 "2016-03-14T04:19:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But wouldn’t you agree that a President is at least somewhat responsible for who succeeds him? The political environment that exists now, in both parties, was a political environment that occurred under his leadership. Just more smoke from your sources **adaher**. It is clear that you still need to watch the often posted Frontline report about how powerful fossil fuel interests and conservative ones have distorted the politics of the Republican party in recent years. > **[Climate of Doubt | FRONTLINE](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/climate-of-doubt/?)** > > FRONTLINE explores the massive shift in public opinion on climate change. They were a very important reason why people that should not had been elected to congress were and in big part because of their denial of science was a feature, not a bug. The powerful interests did not mind that the new republican crop’s anti intellectualism also leads to draconian right wing views and a lack of compromise in government. However, now IMHO most of the powerful are beginning to understand now that they made a big mistake, the Frankenstein monster that is rising up among the Republicans is not what they wanted out of this deal. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/30 "2016-03-14T04:20:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But wouldn’t you agree that a President is at least somewhat responsible for who succeeds him? The political environment that exists now, in both parties, was a political environment that occurred under his leadership. You have the beginnings of an argument there. In order to complete it, you must show that… A) …the health of the Republican Party was Obama’s responsibility, and that by doing nothing he allowed it to decline. or B) …Obama actually did something to bring about the current state of the GOP. It ain’t enough to just say that it happened on his watch. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/31 "2016-03-14T04:26:17Z")
[QUOTE=Washington Post Article in OP] “I think as time went on and outrageous statements which normally disqualify someone for office didn’t seem to, everybody grew concerned,” [Rubio] said. **"But you still hold out the hope that gravity would set in and that this is still a country where dignity and appropriate discourse was a pre-qualification for aspiring to the highest office in the land**. [/QUOTE] Which is why Marco began to make comments about the size of the Donald’s manhood on national TV, to keep the dignity of the process at an appropriate level. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/32 "2016-03-14T04:27:51Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You have the beginnings of an argument there. In order to complete it, you must show that… > > A) …the health of the Republican Party was Obama’s responsibility, and that by doing nothing he allowed it to decline. > > or > > B) …Obama actually did something to bring about the current state of the GOP. > > It ain’t enough to just say that it happened on his watch. No, I agree that the GOP is responsible for its own mess. But what’s going on in the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole is definitely on him. If Trump is elected despite the presence of a clear successor for his policies, then there’s no way he avoids responsbility for that outcome. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/33 "2016-03-14T04:35:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I agree that the GOP is responsible for its own mess. But what’s going on in the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole is definitely on him. If Trump is elected despite the presence of a clear successor for his policies, then there’s no way he avoids responsbility for that outcome. Good thing that Trump being elected is becoming less likely. [http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton](http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton) After the recent primaries it is becoming more clear that we can see a Trump vs Clinton contest. The usual caveat is that it is still early, and the Democratic numbers can go down, but even Nate Silver was wrong by thinking the same about Trump’s lead among the Republicans not lasting. So it is interesting that the pollsters got the general trend about Trump right and early, and more importantly: the same pollsters matching polls of Clinton (or even Bernie) vs Trump show the democrat ahead, and for “ages” already. But the most important thing here is that the most recent polls show Clinton increasing the old constant lead she had over Trump of about 5 points **to 10 points ahead of the troglodyte now** , and it is clear that the people is taking into account not only the recent behavior of Trump, but also that all the “scandals” launched at Clinton are more likely being seen as exaggerations by most of the people. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/34 "2016-03-14T04:36:03Z")
I don’t think Obama has anything to do with what’s happening in the Republican Party. I think it’s more a symptom of non stop messages in echo chambers. We are seeing people on both sides self select into mind-hive camps and I fear it’s not going to end well. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/35 "2016-03-14T04:40:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I agree that the GOP is responsible for its own mess. But what’s going on in the Democratic Party and the nation as a whole is definitely on him. If Trump is elected despite the presence of a clear successor for his policies, then there’s no way he avoids responsbility for that outcome. Wow, I thought I made it as simple as I could, A or B. “None of the above” was not one of the options. Once again, it’s not enough to just say that it happened on his watch. What did he actually do to cause it? He’s been in office for seven years, just pick something. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/36 "2016-03-14T04:42:39Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Wow, I thought I made it as simple as I could, A or B. “None of the above” was not one of the options. > > Once again, it’s not enough to just say that it happened on his watch. **What did he actually do to cause it?** He’s been in office for seven years, just pick something. Got elected. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/37 "2016-03-14T04:43:09Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > . . . This is a bit of a sensitive subject for me - living in Singapore where the ruling party repeats, adnauseam, “It’s not our job to help the opposition” while at the same time putting in place policies and structures that make the emergence of a credible alternative “difficult”. That’s a little different, because it involves actual legal regulations and laws. In U.S. terms, Obama gets to say, “Republicans are poopy-heads,” but he can’t use the FBI to investigate opponents. That was Richard Nixon’s capital blunder: he crossed the line between political activity and the administration of the state. > [@](#): > > Anybody is free to promote their own ideas / party the best way they see able - I simply cannot agree that they should actively try to “hurt” the “other team” - the competition is on ideas, and the quality of an idea doesn’t depend on the team that came up with it. Alas, in a two party system, it’s zero sum. Reducing the other side’s credibility is helping your own ideas get implemented. The other problem is that negative campaigning works. Attack ads really do sway the opinions and votes of large numbers of people. We throw a lot of mud, because history shows that people are influenced by it. We, ourselves, in our own human nature, are a part of the problem. > [@](#): > > In my mind, the current general trend towards greater tribalism in politics hurts. It hurts governance, it hurts policy development and it hurts the country. . . . I actually do agree, and would like to see a more elevated and intelligent campaign. But if (all other things being equal) candidate A runs an intellectually honest campaign, and candidate B tells a blort-load of filthy lies about how his opponent (oh, I don’t know, hypothetically) deliberately let the ambassador to Libya die in a consulate attack – candidate B has the better chance of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/38 "2016-03-14T05:33:41Z")
The OP mentioned Obama’s speech, but I just read a longer transcript of it and it’s excellent, and directly addresses the point that he’s responsible for the fouling of the GOP. I don’t know if the youtube link in the OP is of the speech, but anyway [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/12/president-obamas-brutal-assessment-of-the-rise-of-donald-trump/) is a longer quote of the text. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/39 "2016-03-14T05:52:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Wow, I thought I made it as simple as I could, A or B. “None of the above” was not one of the options. > > Once again, it’s not enough to just say that it happened on his watch. What did he actually do to cause it? He’s been in office for seven years, just pick something. The increased cynicism and the fact that he’s just a typical politician who ran as something different. What those who want change found out is that you simply cannot elect someone who is part of the establishment and expect change. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/40 "2016-03-14T05:59:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The increased cynicism and the fact that he’s just a typical politician who ran as something different. What those who want change found out is that you simply cannot elect someone who is part of the establishment and expect change. Tell me about it, it seems that many Republicans will continue to **ignore** the data that shows the achievements and the change from the disastrous direction that Bush the lesser administration was taking the USA. That is something that will not change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900.md?page=3)