# Rubio blames Obama for the rise of Trump and disintegration of GOP... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 13, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900 "2016-03-13T20:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/81 "2016-03-15T10:16:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Only compared to the nadir of the Bush years. … Numbers from your cite clearly show otherwise. As listed. What part of what you linked to are you unable to comprehend that you persistently state untrue data from it? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/82 "2016-03-15T10:19:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In two of those three cases he was warned beforehand _by Republican Congressmen_ that bad stuff was happening. He ignored them. Sorry, but you get a pass on ignoring one or two correct warnings about a wolf from the same source that has given you hundreds of false-alarm warnings about wolves, bears, wargs, land sharks, giant ants, giant spiders, chtorr, triffids, tripods, and falling skies. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/83 "2016-03-15T10:27:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Obama has done zilch to make you, or us, safer. Bullshit. The Iran nuclear deal reduces the chance of nuclear war. Bin Laden has been fed to fish. His foreign policy has made the US more trusted around the world. We’re normalizing relations with Cuba. We don’t know how many terror attacks have been thwarted in the past seven years. I’m quite confident that if he got a briefing that an attack was imminent, he wouldn’t say “you’ve covered your ass, now leave.” ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/84 "2016-03-15T10:42:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You know normally it’s easier to talk about politics with liberals because they tend to care about things like facts, and science, and logic. But they have one huge blindspot: the image they have of their allies in the political class MUST match the image of themselves that they advertise. So Obama is a strong leader who brought about change, and Hillary Clinton is honest. **Any facts to the contrary** are either brand new to the reader, or Republican lies…_[emphasis mine]_ \*\*\*What facts? \*\*\* People keep asking you for examples, for specifics, for _ **facts** _, and you ignore the questions or spout vague, unsubstantiated, misrepresented or disproven accusations, and then change the subject. You don’t like Obama; fine. You don’t think his administration was successful; not quite fine, because you won’t provide specific metrics other than one misrepresented poll, but whatever. You say Obama is responsible for the rise of Trump; not at all fine, because there is no logical rationale. “He’s the President” is not enough. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/85 "2016-03-15T12:07:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The “bear” Obama needs to outrun in this case is past Presidents, not Congress. Congress is responsible for Congress’ low ratings. The President is responsible for his. His ratings are quite strong, especially lately. The American people, in general, like Obama and approve of his Presidency. > [@](#): > > The fact is, nothing has changed between Bush and Obama other than some fairly predictable policy changes that would have occurred with any Democrat in office. Sorry, but very few people voted for Obama and thought to themselves, “Whew! Thank God we’re finally going to have a typical Democratic politician in the White House. This is what I’ve waited for for eight years!” > > He was supposed to be different. He wasn’t. End of story. He was extremely different from Bush. He did exert tremendous effort in trying to reach out, but after far longer than I think he should have, he finally realized that the Republican party was deliberately disagreeing with him on almost everything, because of who he was and what he represented. They decided early on that avoiding a successful Obama presidency was their goal, and acted on it again and again. He also didn’t get American troops killed. That’s another utterly immense difference. > [@adaher](#): > > Do you think Obama’s strategy against ISIS Is making us, or Europe, safer? In comparison to going in with ground troops, absolutely, and immensely. The US (and our troops) are orders of magnitude safer with us not getting involved wholeheartedly. I think we’d be even safer if we pulled out all troops from the region, but we’re much, much safer than we would be under McCain or Romney. Add the Iran deal and changes with Cuba, and those are utterly huge (and very different in character to both Bush and Clinton!) improvements in our safety. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900/86 "2016-03-15T12:20:19Z")
**adaher** – the standard you hold up for Obama is so unrealistic to be absurd. So he’s not a once-in-a-millennium transformational angelic leader who would be the greatest President in history and the greatest Western leader in a thousand years. That doesn’t mean he’s a failure, or a bad President, or a bad leader, or whatever. So he hasn’t yet fixed the VA – an utterly immense bureaucracy that no one has been able to manage flawlessly in decades. That means he’s not a perfect President. He hasn’t changed for good every negative aspect of US politics. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t been a big change. Your personal dislike of the man colors your views such that you can’t be rational about him. The Iran deal was _huge change_ – far from Washington as usual. So are the Cuba advancements. The ACA was big change – even if Democrats had wanted something like it for half a century, they had _failed to get it done_, and in succeeding, Obama made a big change. Keeping ground troops out of Syria was _big change_ from Washington as usual for the last several decades – most other Presidents would have sent in the troops. There have been plenty of big changes, but because he wasn’t Lincoln reborn, that’s not enough for you. I don’t expect it to be when you disagree with him on many issues, but your assertions about him are not rational. He was and is an immensely consequential President, whether you like him or not – he has affected major changes both in the US and abroad. I think most of them are big improvements – you may not, but they are definitely big changes, even if he failed to change absolutely everything bad in American politics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-blames-obama-for-the-rise-of-trump-and-disintegration-of-gop/748900.md?page=4)