# Rubio won't back his own immigration bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242 "2013-06-05T21:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/221 "2013-06-20T01:15:52Z")
It’s popular as long as they don’t know about the waiver powers or the fact that enforcement does not come simultaneously, but AFTER, legalization. I’m not too worried, the debate is taking place in public and the numbers are moving in conservatives’ favor, just as in 2007. Thus Reid’s need to rush. Too bad for Democrats, the HOuse has decided on the strategy of passing their own enforcement first bill and then going to conference committee with the Senate. What emerges will be an acceptable bill that actually provides real enforcement to go along with legalization. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/222 "2013-06-20T02:01:48Z")
Fucking brilliant! Stop illegal workers from getting here, and stop the ones who are here from working! Iceburg lettuce, $5 a head. To quote the Sundance Kid, “You just keeping thinking, Butch, that’s what you’re good at.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/223 "2013-06-20T02:11:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are A LOT of illegal immigrants with criminal records. If the administration is determined to legalize the vast majority of them, then they will have to make a lot of exceptions. Then there’s the fact that many resorted to identify theft or forged documents to get jobs. That’s a felony too. > > As I said, the law says immigrants have to have clean records, but most of them don’t, so it’s a way to deceive the public. You still didn’t address WHY you think the administration, this one or any future one, would do that. In fact, you bring up an interesting point. The non-paranoid belief, one that is actually more pragmatic, is that Obama will use the discretionary powers of the executive branch to legalize LESS immigrants because of the reasons you mentioned. Again, bringing in criminals helps no one. A pragmatic and moderate president such as Obama would avoid the controversy and consider it a win that immigration reform passed. Why would you think he’d be in a big rush to legalize criminals? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/224 "2013-06-20T02:12:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s popular as long as they don’t know about the waiver powers or the fact that enforcement does not come simultaneously, but AFTER, legalization. > > I’m not too worried, the debate is taking place in public and the numbers are moving in conservatives’ favor, just as in 2007. Thus Reid’s need to rush. Too bad for Democrats, the HOuse has decided on the strategy of passing their own enforcement first bill and then going to conference committee with the Senate. What emerges will be an acceptable bill that actually provides real enforcement to go along with legalization. Just what I pointed before as an option, both can be done, so much for denying the middle and only claiming that people were demanding only enforcement. And no, when the waiver point is already on the ridiculous levels you are wrongly reporting, it is not likely to change the polls a lot, depending on only one poll that supports your points (there was another I pointed out early with similar support levels) you are only going for the same cherry picking that led you guys to assume victory in 2012 when defeat was coming. IMHO this issue is already lost for the extreme conservatives, even if they somehow defeat this bill the result will not be pretty for the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/225 "2013-06-20T02:19:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Fucking brilliant! Stop illegal workers from getting here, and stop the ones who are here from working! \*\*Iceburg lettuce, $5 a head. > \*\* > To quote the Sundance Kid, “You just keeping thinking, Butch, that’s what you’re good at.” Not unless they can only pick two heads an hour. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/226 "2013-06-20T15:12:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are A LOT of illegal immigrants with criminal records. If the administration is determined to legalize the vast majority of them, then they will have to make a lot of exceptions. Then there’s the fact that many resorted to identify theft or forged documents to get jobs. That’s a felony too. > > As I said, the law says immigrants have to have clean records, but most of them don’t, so it’s a way to deceive the public. This is silly. You’re OK with the bill to legalize undocumented workers as long as we deport those with criminal records. Then you decide that nearly everyone who’s undocumented would (or should) have a criminal record. It’s like saying “I’m OK with granting amnesty to drug offenders currently behind bars unless they’ve spent any recent time in jail.” Argumentative gyrations like this make me suspect you have a (not so) hidden agenda. Much like the Republican party on this issue. So who’s really trying to deceive the public? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/227 "2013-06-20T15:19:15Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Not unless they can only pick two heads an hour. I thought it was pretty obvious I was talking about the price at the local Piggly Wiggly. But if it wasn’t obvious then, it is now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/228 "2013-06-21T15:33:56Z")
Anyone have any comments on today’s compromise? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/229 "2013-06-21T16:59:38Z")
Only way to get the Pubbies on board is offer them a way to cave while looking like tough guys doing it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/230 "2013-06-21T17:06:38Z")
Besides mentioning even more evidence that outfits like the Heritage Foundation were full of shit regarding the expense, the extreme oponents just demonstrated what even John McCain pointed out: > [@](#): > > “If they can’t accept these provisions, then border security is not their problem,” McCain said. > **[Immigration compromise gains momentum in Senate with deal on border security](https://www.oregonlive.com/today/2013/06/immigration_compromise_gains_m.html)** > > A deal to strengthen protections at the border with Mexico cleared the way for several Republican senators to add their support, putting the bill within reach of the bipartisan support it would need for serious consideration in the House. > [@](#): > > The breakthrough came when the Congressional Budget Office released a report Tuesday finding that the bill would cut billions of dollars from the deficit. > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., an author of the bill who helped run interference between Corker and Hoeven and Democrats in the group, said that with the CBO finding in hand, he sat down with Schumer and Corker and said, “OK, let’s go big.” > > The idea immediately appealed to the left and the right. > > For Republicans, it provided concrete assurances that the bill would achieve a secure border. For Democrats, it offered goals that, if dramatic, were achievable and measurable. > > Still, not everyone was won over. > > Shortly before Corker and Hoeven went to the Senate floor to announce their agreement Thursday afternoon, five leading Republican opponents of the bill held a news conference to denounce the deal as little more than an empty promise. > > “In short I think this amendment is designed to pass the bill but not to fix the bill,” Sen. David Vitter, R-La., said. > > About 10 Republicans have indicated they will vote for the bill, far more than enough to ensure it will have the 60 votes required to overcome any attempted filibuster by last-ditch opponents. Democrats control 54 seats, and party aides have said they do not expect any defections. > > In addition to the border security components and eventual citizenship for the 11 million people now here illegally, the immigration bill would create new work visa programs and expand existing ones to allow tens of thousands of workers into the country to work in high- and low-skilled jobs. Sorry Mr. Corker and others, I guess you will not be able to stop what compromise is. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/231 "2013-06-21T17:52:10Z")
AS best as I can tell (some of the terms are still being hammered out), these are [details](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=193965203&ft=1&f=2) of the compromise: > [@](#): > > Using revenues from the immigration bill that the Congressional Budget Office estimates could be close to a trillion dollars over the next two decades, the amendment would add 20,000 border patrol agents to the 21,000 already deployed along the Mexican border. It would also complete 700 miles of fencing. I also note that the compromise has jettisoned the requirement that border security be completed prior to general legalization. While I’d prefer not to spend this additional money, I have no real problem with including this in the bill. It seems to provide a fig leaf for R’s like Mark Kirk (who is now switching his vote in favor)–and if the president is so gung-ho to burnish his bipartisan credentials, I guess that’s OK. Still, it won’t stop the usual suspects (Sessions, Cruz) from stoking their racist base–but then again what would? Next stop is the House, where the Tea Party is stronger, so we’ll see… ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/232 "2013-06-21T18:06:09Z")
Incidentally, with respect to Rubio, the Tea Party is already rumbling about a primary challenge over this bill. [Guess who](http://www.wmal.com/common/page.php?pt=WMAL+EXCLUSIVE:+Allen+West+Challlenges+Marco+Rubio+On+Immigration;+Won%27t+Rule+Out+2016+Primary+Chall&id=29653&is_corp=0)… > [@](#): > > (Former Florida Congressman Allen) West was pressed further by WMAL’s Larry O’Connor, who asked him directly if he would rule out a challenge against Rubio. > > “Chirping… chirping… chirping…,” replied West with a chuckle, before elaborating with a more direct response. > > “If I see people that are not taking our country down the right path, if I see people that are not standing up for the right type of principles, and putting their own party politics before what is best for the United States of America,” West indicated he might make a run. > \<…\> > West told WMAL he has a “lot of concerns” about the measure himself. > > “Do we need to do something about immigration? Absolutely,” said West. “This whole ‘comprehensive’ thing - I think the bill now is up to 1,075 pages - Once again, the American people don’t trust that,” he added. Sure, West is a crank, but his views seem to [resonate](http://news.yahoo.com/social-issues-still-fire-gop-despite-2012-loss-071228645.html) with a non-trivial subset of the Republican leadership: > [@](#): > > It’s increasingly clear…that many Republicans think party elders were hasty in saying the GOP won’t win future presidential elections unless it agrees to far-reaching immigration changes that include new pathways to citizenship. > > “What an idiot,” Washington state Republican Chairman Kirby Wilbur said Tuesday of Sen. Lindsey Graham’s recent comments on the matter. Graham, R-S.C., said that without “immigration reform” along the lines the Senate is weighing, “we’re in a demographic death spiral as a party.” > > “The pathology report of the death of the Republican Party is grossly overstated,” Wilbur said. > \<…\> > Republicans appear to be following the immigration debate more closely than Democrats. That might help conservative Republicans generate enthusiasm in next year’s midterm elections, which typically draw fewer voters than do presidential races. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/233 "2013-06-21T18:27:29Z")
Stupid. Fences? Seriously, fences? You’re talking about people who are willing to risk their lives hiking in the Sonoran Desert. Wearing shoes and clothes you wouldn’t risk hiking in the Mall!. For the chance, the chance! at doing back breaking shit work and living six to a room in order to send money home to their families! People with determination and balls like that, a fence is going to stop them? Hell, aren’t these the kind of people we want to come to our country? Anybody got more family values than that? Personal responsibility? How would you like to be an Amercian citizen who just found out that your cousin Juanita died in the stinking desert trying to get work as a maid? Would you ever, in a million years vote for the people who make that happen? Seriously? Yeah, I’m bothered by the demographics, and the economics. What makes me want to holler, throw up both my hands? The cruelty. The bitter, heartless cruelty. Its total bullshit. The Pubbies have to cave, and they know it. They are just looking for a way to cave in while looking like they are being tough on illegal immigration. While good and worthy people FUCKING DIE! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/234 "2013-06-21T21:40:06Z")
They don’t have to cave. The politics haven’t changed since 2007. The public is turning against the bill as they find out what’s in it, thus Reid’s big rush on all this. What’s actually going on is that the GOP is representing the median voter on this. The median voter wants a path to citizenship that is firm but fair and an end to largescale illegal immigration. Democrats are also promising this, but the actual bill doesn’t deliver it. The compromise fixes border security, but there are still two more aspects to immigration enforcement: the entry/exit system and E-verify. I imagine those two things will be fixed once the House passes their bill and it goes to conference. And elucidator, the Democrats are the ones who are trying to look tough on illegal immigration. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/235 "2013-06-21T21:55:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They don’t have to cave. The politics haven’t changed since 2007. The public is turning against the bill as they find out what’s in it, thus Reid’s big rush on all this. Not correct as pointed before. > [@adaher](#): > > What’s actually going on is that the GOP is representing the median voter on this. The median voter wants a path to citizenship that is firm but fair and an end to largescale illegal immigration. Democrats are also promising this, but the actual bill doesn’t deliver it. Too bad only extremists agree with your point here. > [@adaher](#): > > The compromise fixes border security, but there are still two more aspects to immigration enforcement: the entry/exit system and E-verify. I imagine those two things will be fixed once the House passes their bill and it goes to conference. As E-verify must be in place, I think this is just another of your say so’s that only shows that you are not reading the law nor the compromises. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/236 "2013-06-21T22:08:01Z")
From what I’ve read, “Employers must verify legal status when hiring”, which is already the law but poorly enforced. It’s reasonable to ask what’s going to change and how we measure change. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/237 "2013-06-21T22:08:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > From what I’ve read, “Employers must verify legal status when hiring”, which is already the law but poorly enforced. It’s reasonable to ask what’s going to change and how we measure change. Not the point, you are not even trying uh? Better read the law and the compromise because you are “not even wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/238 "2013-06-21T22:19:23Z")
The compromise is on border security and it includes actual benchmarks that have to be met before green card status can be awarded. Does it also include benchmarks on the use of E-verify? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/239 "2013-06-21T22:38:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The compromise is on border security and it includes actual benchmarks that have to be met before green card status can be awarded. > > Does it also include benchmarks on the use of E-verify? Lets be clear about what you are trying to evade: you continue to show gross ignorance here and the point to all others is that no one should rely on your say so’s. > **[Why Bill O'Reilly now supports immigration reform](https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2013/0621/Why-Bill-O-Reilly-now-supports-immigration-reform)** > > Bill O'Reilly announced his support for the immigration reform bill on his Fox News show Thursday night, in light of a border-security compromise that has been struck. > [@](#): > > Those requirements come in addition to two other “triggers” that must be met before illegal immigrants can become permanent residents: Entry- and exit-tracking procedures have to be improved at all seaports and airports, and a nationwide system of employment verification known as E-Verify must be in place. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/240 "2013-06-22T00:15:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As your link shows, if you come here illegally and otherwise keep your nose clean, your chances of being deported are about as likely as getting busted downloading music. Isn’t that how it should be? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=13)